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Report: Flyers offered Carter AND Richards to Columbus in ’11

Dec 20, 2013, 11:55 AM EDT

Philadelphia Flyers' Richards celebrates his game-winning goal against Ottawa Senators with teammate Carter during their NHL hockey game in Philadelphia

From the “only out of Philadelphia” file comes this beauty, from Aaron Portzline of the Columbus Dispatch:

Sources have told The Dispatch that the blockbuster trade swung between the Blue Jackets and Flyers on June 23, 2011, could have been much larger in scope, perhaps in a way that would have assuaged [Jeff] Carter’s feelings toward playing for the Blue Jackets.

After weeks of haggling between Flyers general manager Paul Holmgren and then-Blue Jackets GM Scott Howson – did the Jackets want Carter or Mike Richards? would the Jackets include a prospect, first-round pick, and maybe another decent pick? – the two sides began to narrow in on a deal that would send promising left wing Jake Voracek, a first-round pick, and a third-round pick to the Flyers for the veteran Carter.

Holmgren hemmed and hawed for a few days until GMs began showing up in St. Paul and Minneapolis for the draft.

Holmgren called Howson the day before the draft in the morning to tell him he was ready to make the move, but not before he dropped a bombshell on Howson’s lap, one that staggered him and forced him to sit down:

“You want ‘em both?” Holmgren asked Howson, meaning Carter and Richards.

While the Jackets might’ve wanted both, they could not afford it — at least according to Howson (who, it should be noted, declined to comment on the report.)

Undeterred, Howson still managed to swing the Carter deal — in exchange for Jakub Voracek and the eighth overall pick at the ’11 draft — and Holmgren was able to ship Richards to LA (on the same day, no less) in exchange for Brayden Schenn and Wayne Simmonds.

The Carter era in Columbus wasn’t great. He did score 15 goals and 25 points in 39 games for the Jackets, but seemed lukewarm on the idea of sticking in Columbus and was flipped to Los Angeles at the ’12 trade deadline for Jack Johnson and a first-round pick.

  1. thecheeman - Dec 20, 2013 at 11:59 AM

    Well played Columbus.

  2. bcsteele - Dec 20, 2013 at 12:04 PM

    Wow, again, Blues fan…and I actually like Philly…

    But someone fire that clown of GM! Who else on the Blue Jackets aside from Nash at the time would have made that worth both!?

    What a joke if this story is true…

    • narfmoo12 - Dec 20, 2013 at 12:10 PM

      You do realize that Columbus had draft picks and prospects, right? Just like how Brayden Schenn and Wayne Simmonds weren’t star players for LA when they sent Richards packing?

      • bcsteele - Dec 20, 2013 at 12:28 PM

        Yes I do. Tell me, how’s that working out for y’all? All I’m gonna say is Philly shipped out two of its best players (and really the heart of the team in my opinion) for Ilya. Which turned out great, and he gave up last year’s pretty much goalie of the year correct? I’m just trying to think of a situation where its worked out.

        All told I don’t follow this team to the letter cause I’m a Blues fan so I may be missing some small details. However, I look at what he’s done, I look at the standings, and I follow the info on this blog and it appears he needs to go.

      • narfmoo12 - Dec 20, 2013 at 12:40 PM

        So the standings where the Flyers are above Columbus? Or how Columbus hasn’t made the playoffs with Bob? Or how Bob is downright terrible this year, yet costing them $6M/year? What about how Voracek was a point per game player last year, and how Couturier is a star in the making (having already shut down Malkin in the playoffs, and now finding his scoring touch)? What about how Mason is outplaying Bob at 1/4 the cost?

        As for Carter and Richards, the Flyers got Voracek, Schenn, Simmonds, Couturier, Grossmann, and Cousins for two players. Richards was the 3rd line center behind Giroux and Briere when the trade was made, and Jeff Carter is still just an inaccurate sniper with no ability to pass (7 assists last year, seriously), kill penalties or play defense.

        Sorry to bring facts to the table.

      • bcsteele - Dec 20, 2013 at 12:57 PM

        That’s a fair point. However, in the same manner Giroux got off to a start of horror you can’t say Bob wont turn it around like Giroux has. And Giroux was getting paid even more. But it does still remains to be seen. However, he’s failed to address Philly’s biggest issue to date…which is their defense. And honestly, I don’t see given their situation and who they have how they can fix that. I don’t see them built for a cup run as a result.

        Biggest question I have for you and everyone who apparently doesn’t agree with me, which is fine, would you say Paul is worth keeping around? Just curious…

      • blackandorangeforlife - Dec 20, 2013 at 2:12 PM

        Dont forget that trade opened the door for Matt Read who wouldn’t have made the team without those trades…..Flyers have 2 great lines courtesy of that trade vs Richardson and a always hurt Carter…..Flyers won that deal big time!

      • blackandorangeforlife - Dec 20, 2013 at 2:19 PM

        How the hell did i type Richardson?…..Maybe i should lay off the Red Bull for a bit!

      • namriverrat69 - Dec 20, 2013 at 9:16 PM

        As bad as everyone has said or inferred Carter & Richards are, who are the only two players of all those involved in those trades who have their names on the Cup?

  3. narfmoo12 - Dec 20, 2013 at 12:08 PM

    So basically Columbus traded Jake Voracek and Sean Couturier (8th pick in 2012) for Jack Johnson and Marko Dano (27th pick in 2013)? Seems like the Flyers got the better of that deal.

    • kale42 - Dec 20, 2013 at 12:16 PM

      The Bobrovsky deal evened things up haha

      • narfmoo12 - Dec 20, 2013 at 12:23 PM

        Bobrovsky: 2.72/.907
        Mason: 2.40/.922 PLUS Anthony Stolarz

        And before you talk about last season, it’s pretty obvious that Bobrovsky got hot for the last 6 weeks of the season because his GAA was over 3.00 and his save% was under .900 on March 1.

        By the way, which seems like the outlier in Bob’s numbers:

      • langforc - Dec 20, 2013 at 12:45 PM

        narfmoo12: while those numbers might be true Mason was not part of the Bob trade

      • georgiared - Dec 22, 2013 at 8:44 AM

        Bobrovsky: 73-45-18(54% win) 2.53 .915. Never had a losing record in a season.
        Mason: 113-110-31(44% win) 2.82 .906. Has had 1 winning season in 5 years.

        Here’s some of Mason’s numbers:

        But I forgot, Filly fans don’t like ACTUAL facts to show how moronic they are.

    • dirt2013 - Dec 20, 2013 at 12:27 PM

      The Flyers got the better of the deal? It sure shows in their record ,eh.

      • sndflyers - Dec 20, 2013 at 6:56 PM

        3rd place in the metropolitan division. 8 game home winning streak and currently in playoff position. Not too bad if you ask me.

      • namriverrat69 - Dec 20, 2013 at 9:22 PM

        Aren’t you forgetting they had been to the Cup finals the year before they dumped Richards and Carter? Rebuilding a finals team one year after being there is about the smartest thing a team could do to make them a little bit better so they could come back and make a better run at it the next year.

        This year, a couple of seasons removed from the trades you say Philly is in the hunt for a playoff spot. Philly sure won that one alright.

  4. phillyphan93 - Dec 20, 2013 at 12:26 PM

    I love the players that the team acquired, but trading Richards set the franchise back big time. There is no other player in sports today that had won a championship at every level they have played. Cant replace that. Every trade this team has made recently has been a mistake just look at JVR and Bob.

    • flyerspsu - Dec 20, 2013 at 1:40 PM

      i have no idea why your comment is being liked down, maybe its delusional flyers fans that arent willing to admit trading Richards was really dumb but you are 100% right, he is the exact type of player every team wants and needs come playoff team and should never trade

      schenn and simmonds for him was a terrible trade, its comical when i see some flyers fans claim we got the better cus simmonds and schenn are putting up fairly similar offensive numbers, too bad they arent elite defensively, responsible, clutch and all the traits that matter the most come playoff time, Richards is one of the most important players in the league for those reasons, i would take Richards on my team over Malkin every single time

      thats why this flyers team will never contend for a cup unless they make some huge moves, this team is filled with slightly above average offensive players that arent good defensively and lack the skill and hockey IQ needed to contend with the best

      • jpelle82 - Dec 20, 2013 at 3:03 PM

        thumbs up until you said you would take richards over malkin…thats just silly and you know it

      • flyerspsu - Dec 21, 2013 at 9:04 AM

        i knew i would be in the minority when it comes to picking Richards over Malkin but if you were to consider contact term there is absolutely no doubt in my mind i would take Richards over Malkin when building a team

        Richards is the exact type of player you want in your core as a championship team. Malkin is the Russian that scores a ton of points during the regular season but also eats up a lot of your cap and doesnt take over come come playoff time, im talking about building a cup team, i would 100% take Richards over Malkin for a cup team, one is a 5 mil per year responsible shutdown, clutch center that has shown up and won every championship a hockey can, Malkin is an elite scorer that is a defensive liability and is inconsistent come playoff time

        Look at the trend of teams that excel come playoff time, they are all filled with these solid 2 way, responsible players, those are the teams who win the cup, not these 1 dimensional inconsistent defensive liability scorers who are great during the reg season but aren’t built for the playoff run

    • truehockeyfan - Dec 20, 2013 at 10:18 PM

      I live south jersey and I know for a fact both Richards and Carter had problems with authority. They were asked to stop drinking for part of the season and refused and it caused a rift in the locker room. Pronged and Timmonen as well as other vets were not happy with their lack of discipline. Only I can say this with confidence is that I worked at a golf course in Sea Isle City and they come in the back and get trashed we would have to call the cops to take them home…..they come to practice hung over. You are pro act like it….so it wasn’t they’re on ice play obviously but a coach has to have control over the locker room. Keep this in mind as well….carter and Richards aren’t on the top line in LA nor are they the main attraction like in philly. A lit less pressure to carry the team as in philly…..I don’t see 40 goals by Carter or big numbers by Richards because they don’t have to. The Flyers got what they could when they could ….they were forced into the situation by the players actions.

  5. President Charles Logan - Dec 20, 2013 at 12:47 PM

    and what exactly have the results been since the trade again? ….. playoff speaking of course

    (insert sarcastic chuckle)

    • blackandorangeforlife - Dec 20, 2013 at 4:58 PM

      Playoff speaking not much better then the Iginla trade at the deadline last season!

      • President Charles Logan - Dec 20, 2013 at 7:45 PM

        and iginla has what to do with this? or my post?

    • blackandorangeforlife - Dec 20, 2013 at 8:10 PM

      Neither worked out!

  6. jamesthegreat03 - Dec 20, 2013 at 12:51 PM

    I would say Philly is set up pretty well for the future. People seem to forget how young this team is, everyone give them a chance to grow together and just watch the results

  7. flyerspsu - Dec 20, 2013 at 1:41 PM

    the Carter trade was great, the Richards trade was terrible

  8. mcphillthy - Dec 20, 2013 at 2:33 PM

    The trades were fantastic for the flyers. If anyone is trying to say the team is playing bad bc of that trade then you are foolish. The main reason we are playing bad is because we lost pronger. Period.
    Losing pronger hurt us bad and set us back years. Richie was a good hockey player but losing him isn’t what hurt us. Richie is a nice addition to a team but he isn’t the man. Pronger was the man. You could see it right away after we lost pronger.
    So you trolls can argue with the uneducated flyers fans about the Richie and carter trade all day long. But losing pronger is the main reason we struggle the way we do today.

    • flyerspsu - Dec 21, 2013 at 9:07 AM

      how on earth was the Rcihards trade good? please enlighten me

  9. blackandorangeforlife - Dec 20, 2013 at 2:42 PM

    How are those trades working out this season?
    Richards 6 goals 21 assists = 27 points……3rd line center on both teams
    Carter 10 goals 10 assists = 20 points…….How many full seasons so far?….Future?
    A total of 16 goals 31 assists and 47 points

    Schenn 7 goals 12 assist = 19 points
    Simmonds 6 goals 11 assists = 17 points
    Voracek 9 goals 13 assists = 22 points
    Couturier 6 goals 10 assists = 16 points

    Flyers gave up 16 goals 31 assists for 47 points
    The returns 28 goals 46 assists for 74 points
    Now ad in Matt Read who wouldn’t have made the team without those trades
    10 goals 7 assists and 17 points = 38 goals 52 assists for a total of 91 points

    Yeah i can see how everyone thinks the Flyers lost in those trades….I mean 47 points from 2/3rds of a line vs 91 points from 3 lines….Seems the Flyers are a more even team not to mention how much younger……Lets not forget about Carters chronic foot problems (left and right)…..I’ll take this trade every day of the week

    • WillIEverSeeACupInMyLife? - Dec 20, 2013 at 3:02 PM

      Damn…..A lot of thought went into that post !!!

    • mcphillthy - Dec 20, 2013 at 3:08 PM

      Flyers won the deal with Columbus but I think we could have gotten more from the kings. I would have gone after voynov over Simmonds. I said it then and I still think it now.

      • thesportsjudge - Dec 20, 2013 at 3:55 PM

        Voynoy doesn’t fight.

      • namriverrat69 - Dec 20, 2013 at 9:32 PM

        Voynov’s role is not as a fighter. He is an excellent defensman. There are not as many fights these days as there were 20-30-40 years go. Fighting now is to make a point or in defense of your player getting injured. The Kings have other players who have that role on the team – including Richards.

    • narfmoo12 - Dec 20, 2013 at 3:19 PM

      Well done! But don’t forget that the Flyers also got Grossmann and Nick Cousins… Along with the fact that Voracek, Simmonds, Couturier, and Schenn are all 25 or younger.

    • blackandorangeforlife - Dec 20, 2013 at 8:33 PM

      Life…..Simply paying attention!
      MC…Simmonds is a younger, Stronger version of Hartnell….That line was clicking when Vinny went down
      12…Grossman was happening regardless and Cousins is a possibly good prospect.

      My personal belief is every scenario had the Flyers targeting Coots…..They went balls out to get him and what nobody else could get and that is B Schenn…..Me thinks Holmgren is the next Ed Wade!

    • flyerspsu - Dec 21, 2013 at 9:18 AM

      Keep telling yourself we won the Richards trade … yeah 2 middle of the road 2nd line wingers with several flaws in their game are better than a stud, shutdown, clutch center that has won every hockey championship possible …

      how in hell would Richards be the 3rd line center considering he has 27 points in addition to his great defensive play? Voracek is the 2nd leading scorer on the team with 22 points … Richards would be far and away a top 2 player on the team with Giroux, there is not a single player that would even come close

      • blackandorangeforlife - Dec 21, 2013 at 9:56 AM

        PSU…I dont tell me anything..The players are telling me this with numbers…..Those two middle of the road players are called depth….Depth they would not have if they still had Richards contract of which there is still 6 seasons @$5.75 mil with a NMC…..The problem was trading Carter without pissing Mike off…Wasn’t happening…Remember their refusal on “Dry Island”?
        I can tell you as a Flyers fan i always enjoyed the pics posted to the internet of Mike and Jeff having a blast at College parties…Nice…..I mean after the whole Lindros living at Rexy’s history and what happened to Pelle i cant blame the organization…..Maybe you can but i cant…..See i’m not a teenage fan…..not in my 20’s …I passed thru my thirties and i’m well into my forties so i can be more objective then the average fanboy…….If you want to photoshop the picture then have fun…..I look at the unedited version and form my own opinion…..Not saying Ritchie is not a good player….Didn’t even say that about Jeff….What i am saying is the returns so far have bested the losses by a very large margin…..Last years numbers were the same way….And the season before made the trade look so lopsided in the Flyers favor it’s no funny…Also do you have a clue on hot a commodity Schenn was?…..Homer managed to do what 20 other GM’s failed at…..Trading for the kid…….Richards for Schenn, Simmonds and what turned out to be Cousins is a great trade…….Numbers prove this….what numbers do you have to change my opinion?
        And Richards is and has been a 3rd line center for the Kings……Your right on the Flyers he might be #2……But no Vinny is there…1st?…Nope that would be G….3rd?…..Could the Flyers push Coots down to 4th?…..Is a third line player worth $5.75?…….At the time of the trades i was dumbstruck…….After time i have seen how well these trades have worked….There is no fanboy in me…..Just a fan that has been around since the Cup days and have seen just about every thing

  10. jpelle82 - Dec 20, 2013 at 3:00 PM

    who cares what almost happened 2 years ago? the kings took their guys and won a cup, the blue jackets will just keep being the blue jackets it seems, and the flyers got some serious value out of all it and the potential of it paying dividends at some point.

  11. ironman721 - Dec 20, 2013 at 7:18 PM

    Flyers won in the deal but Richards and Carter won the cup…. Just saying…

    • blackandorangeforlife - Dec 20, 2013 at 8:55 PM

      Sure they won and most of us Flyers fans are happy for them…..But did they win the cup?….Put Leighton on the Kings instead of Quick…..Do they make the playoffs let alone win the cup?

      • ironman721 - Dec 21, 2013 at 11:28 PM

        They hoisted the cup and got their names engraved on the side, so… Yeah, they won the cup.

      • blackandorangeforlife - Dec 22, 2013 at 7:06 PM

        Ironman….You think the Kings would have won with Leighton?……Doubt that 100%

  12. tcclark - Dec 20, 2013 at 7:20 PM

    People fault Homer for these deals, but I can’t do that. I love the players we got in return and I think the Carter deal was a no brainer. I really like Simmonds and Schenn as well, but I’d be lying if I said I wouldn’t rather have Mike Richards. He would be the perfect second line center for the Flyers right now. Not only would he provide his usual two-way play, but he would still be captain, he would still take the blame when things went wrong, and he’d allow Giroux to just go out and score. He would have been a phenomenal mentor for Couts and I think the Flyers would be in better position at the moment with him on the roster.

    However, like I said, I can’t blame Homer. There’s no way he could have known what was going to happen with Bryz and I love that we have a gm that is willing to take risks. I don’t want a gm that is going to sit back and do nothing when the team needs to make a move. He took a risk and it didn’t pan out the way we hoped. It sucks, but I’d rather have a gm take a risk and lose than not take one at all.

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