Comments on: Meeting with mediator wraps for the day; NHL offer back on the table? (Update: No it wasn’t) http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/12/meeting-with-mediator-wraps-for-the-day-nhl-offer-back-on-the-table/ ProHockeyTalk on NBCSports.com Tue, 18 Jun 2013 06:55:35 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.com/ By: badintent http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/12/meeting-with-mediator-wraps-for-the-day-nhl-offer-back-on-the-table/comment-page-1/#comment-118389 Fri, 14 Dec 2012 06:37:52 +0000 http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=883960#comment-118389 @duster
You’re right. Curlers getting some nice ratings this week and lot of $$$. Has a PRO NHLer ever played at a pro level in Curling ??

]]> By: id4joey http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/12/meeting-with-mediator-wraps-for-the-day-nhl-offer-back-on-the-table/comment-page-1/#comment-118355 Fri, 14 Dec 2012 02:09:52 +0000 http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=883960#comment-118355 Here is the list of the dirty dozen+1-1
Ron Hainsey
Jamal Mayers
Mathieu Darche
Brad Boyes
Adrian Aucoin
Shane Doan
Chris Campoli
Andy Macdonald
Steve Montador
Geoff Wynick
Brandon Morrison
Doug Murray

]]> By: valoisvipers http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/12/meeting-with-mediator-wraps-for-the-day-nhl-offer-back-on-the-table/comment-page-1/#comment-118253 Thu, 13 Dec 2012 18:12:24 +0000 http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=883960#comment-118253 Great info Joey, I hope that the 13 player negotiating committee isn’t entirely make up with overpaid superstars because at this point it is only about them.All the 3rd and 4rth liners on teams want to play now and would sign. Add to that anyone 35 and older which most teams have 2 would want to sign and play now, as would all the back up goalies. Now through in the guys that are under performing for the money they are getting or players on the last year of a lucrative contract.You also have the 2-3 guys that are up with the team trying to establish a spot on the roster,you know they want to play so add all this up and you have about 75-80% of each teams players that would sign and play today. Wish they could vote!

]]> By: chrisvegas http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/12/meeting-with-mediator-wraps-for-the-day-nhl-offer-back-on-the-table/comment-page-1/#comment-118251 Thu, 13 Dec 2012 18:07:39 +0000 http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=883960#comment-118251 Yep. I point this article to anyone who refers to the BS Forbes article.

http://www.wingingitinmotown.com/2012/9/30/3427436/misconceptions

]]> By: chrisvegas http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/12/meeting-with-mediator-wraps-for-the-day-nhl-offer-back-on-the-table/comment-page-1/#comment-118249 Thu, 13 Dec 2012 17:57:48 +0000 http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=883960#comment-118249 @id4joey – “Forbes says 18 teams are losing money!
Every year, Forbes releases a valuation of NHL franchises in which the magazine does a lot of research not only to hammer down what each team is worth, but also how their cash flow works. Last year’s rankings showed 18 of the NHL’s 30 teams running at an operating loss. The problem is that NHL teams are run as private businesses and private businesses don’t release their financials for review. Forbes builds their data off what they can gather off publicly available data, but that data is extremely sensitive to Hollywood accounting. For instance, last year, the Colorado Avalanche reported $7M more in gate receipts than the Florida Panthers, despite the Panthers drawing 1,100 more fans per game and having a higher average ticket price.
The Truth: Sadly, only the league, and possibly the players know the truth. Did the Panthers lose money? Yeah, probably. Did the Capitals lose more money than the Panthers? Probably not. Did the Sharks lose more than both of them? Come on now. Part of the reason for the Panthers’ gate receipts being so low is that their lease agreement leaves nothing to the team for luxury box sales. Of course, the Panthers lease their arena from a company owned by the same company that owns them, but Forbes doesn’t count that.”

]]> By: chrisvegas http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/12/meeting-with-mediator-wraps-for-the-day-nhl-offer-back-on-the-table/comment-page-1/#comment-118248 Thu, 13 Dec 2012 17:49:29 +0000 http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=883960#comment-118248 @id4joey – I’ve addressed the Inaccuracies of the Forbes article several times. It is very misleading and very wrong. Don’t be fooled into this garbage that somehow the NHL is losing money while at the same time they have record revenue. Think! They are doing very well for themselves. Here is a article that address MANY of the problems with the forbes article you suggest.

http://www.wingingitinmotown.com/2012/9/30/3427436/misconceptions

]]> By: duster1982 http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/12/meeting-with-mediator-wraps-for-the-day-nhl-offer-back-on-the-table/comment-page-1/#comment-118220 Thu, 13 Dec 2012 16:13:35 +0000 http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=883960#comment-118220 When you have to keep publicly announcing “we are united” it usually means youre not.

]]> By: duster1982 http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/12/meeting-with-mediator-wraps-for-the-day-nhl-offer-back-on-the-table/comment-page-1/#comment-118219 Thu, 13 Dec 2012 16:12:32 +0000 http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=883960#comment-118219 when will people get that REVENUE does NOT equal PROFIT. This is why businessmen run the business, and players are supposed to play.

]]> By: ibieiniid http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/12/meeting-with-mediator-wraps-for-the-day-nhl-offer-back-on-the-table/comment-page-1/#comment-118187 Thu, 13 Dec 2012 13:10:32 +0000 http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=883960#comment-118187 the mysterious land of butthole

]]> By: id4joey http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/12/meeting-with-mediator-wraps-for-the-day-nhl-offer-back-on-the-table/comment-page-1/#comment-118186 Thu, 13 Dec 2012 12:50:41 +0000 http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=883960#comment-118186 1) these owners are billionaires, and it wasn’t through hockey that they became so. Hockey is not their primary source of income. They own a professional franchise for the prestige, thrill and excitement it gives them. They are power seekers. For some selling would be like admitting a business failure. Again, they are pure business men looking to turn a profit. What better achievement is there for a business man than to take a business and turn loses into profits? For them it’s merely a game. We have difficulty putting our heads around that concept because we don,t have the same mindset as they do.

2) if you’re a publicly traded company,then you are obligated to make your profits and loses known publicly. NHL owners are not. Business men will put all the leverage on their side in order to win. It is within their legal right not to open their books. Business men look for ways to win without breaking the laws, and some stretch future than others, while few actually break them just to flatter their egos.

3) our only insight is based on whatever information is made public. Value has increased as a whole, and some teams are worth more than others. The ones in small hockey markets are worth less. Currently there are 7 or 8 teams that couldn’t care less if there is no hockey this year because they are losing money. For our sake I hope the ones that want a season can convince these 7 or 8 to have a season.

We form our opinions based on information fed to us by the media, use a bit of common sense and experience to fill in the gaps. Forbes admits what they wrote was based on research and historical data. They may be off, but I suspect they have their inside information and can piece together the state of the finances fairly accurately.

]]> By: badintent http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/12/meeting-with-mediator-wraps-for-the-day-nhl-offer-back-on-the-table/comment-page-1/#comment-118174 Thu, 13 Dec 2012 07:05:51 +0000 http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=883960#comment-118174 There’s a $ 1 million dollars up for grabs on the ICE this week in Canada…..oh sorry, it ONLY for the Curlers. Sorry NHLPA.

]]> By: woodstakes http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/12/meeting-with-mediator-wraps-for-the-day-nhl-offer-back-on-the-table/comment-page-1/#comment-118170 Thu, 13 Dec 2012 06:10:24 +0000 http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=883960#comment-118170 While I agree with you on the Forbes article Joey as it does show some large losses for a few teams while quite a few teams are on the bubble; $129.5M in losses combined by ALL the leagues teams that showed operating income losses… but there are a few questions that I always seem to come back to:

1) If your business was losing multi-millions of dollars every year why would one who has reached billionaire or upper multimillionaire status hold on to such an investment? How many investments have these guys made over the years that lost money consistently for years and they still hold on to them? Why, aren’t all these teams up for sale… shouldn’t there be a fire sale on these teams?

2) If you were trying to sell to the union that you are losing SO much money… why wouldn’t you GLADLY open your books to show them just how much your losing?? Really only 1 or 2 answers to come to from that imo… Either your not losing all that much money or you don’t want them to see how much money you are making outside of HRR.

3) When you look at the Forbes article and you infer the fact that all these teams showing (operating) losses have been saying these losses have been going on for YEARS… why is it only 3 teams show a negative on value change?? If a team has been losing 10′s of millions of dollars for years upon years… why hasn’t its value decreased for all these teams? Why only 3??

]]> By: cspsrbums http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/12/meeting-with-mediator-wraps-for-the-day-nhl-offer-back-on-the-table/comment-page-1/#comment-118158 Thu, 13 Dec 2012 05:07:48 +0000 http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=883960#comment-118158 Forbes article. ( hate auto correct)

]]> By: cspsrbums http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/12/meeting-with-mediator-wraps-for-the-day-nhl-offer-back-on-the-table/comment-page-1/#comment-118157 Thu, 13 Dec 2012 05:04:43 +0000 http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=883960#comment-118157 Id4 the Forbes arrival is a bunch of crap we went through that weeks ago we all know owners move money around between businesses to show a loss. I hole the players stick together not only to stick it to the owners but to stick it to you and your F*** sources get off the owners nuts again

]]> By: id4joey http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/12/meeting-with-mediator-wraps-for-the-day-nhl-offer-back-on-the-table/comment-page-1/#comment-118121 Thu, 13 Dec 2012 02:16:59 +0000 http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=883960#comment-118121 chrisvegas, you’re arguments are very good from a player’s perspective. Now, put on the owner’s hat and read the Forbes articles. If you’re being objective, then I suspect you’ll see the issue from a different perspective.

]]> By: stakex http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/12/meeting-with-mediator-wraps-for-the-day-nhl-offer-back-on-the-table/comment-page-1/#comment-118118 Thu, 13 Dec 2012 02:07:44 +0000 http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=883960#comment-118118 So the argument is that the super stars will be even more greedy with a 5 year term limit, and as such the players as a whole are going to lose a season over this issue? That makes sense….

Besides there is a very easy solution to this problem: Lower the max amount of money (currently 20% of a teams cap) a player is allowed to make. That number could be lowered to 15% of a teams cap and things would stay about the same as they are now.

Its also worth pointing out that players probably wouldn’t get many max contracts under this new system, if any at all. The reason back diving contracts started was because owners wouldn’t give out max contracts because they are bad for a team overall with a cap. So what makes people think owners would start throwing max contracts around like candy with 5 year limits? They didn’t before, and they won’t now because its hard to win a cup with two super star and a bunch of 4th line players…..

]]> By: ron05342 http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/12/meeting-with-mediator-wraps-for-the-day-nhl-offer-back-on-the-table/comment-page-1/#comment-118111 Thu, 13 Dec 2012 01:47:36 +0000 http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=883960#comment-118111 I call BS.

]]> By: id4joey http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/12/meeting-with-mediator-wraps-for-the-day-nhl-offer-back-on-the-table/comment-page-1/#comment-118110 Thu, 13 Dec 2012 01:45:49 +0000 http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=883960#comment-118110 chrisvegas, there are links to articles ob Forbes.com that spell out the financial situation from a business perspective. Perhaps you should read them. Yes! The players will have to lose some to make some. But the owners can’t continue to keep losing some to make some. It just doesn’t work that way.

]]> By: sportsfan69 http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/12/meeting-with-mediator-wraps-for-the-day-nhl-offer-back-on-the-table/comment-page-1/#comment-118109 Thu, 13 Dec 2012 01:41:14 +0000 http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=883960#comment-118109

Come on guys. Get it done.

]]> By: chrisvegas http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/12/meeting-with-mediator-wraps-for-the-day-nhl-offer-back-on-the-table/comment-page-1/#comment-118096 Thu, 13 Dec 2012 00:58:28 +0000 http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=883960#comment-118096 @spic – I don’t disagree. I am sure the players who make the min salary are ready to end it now while the other half who makes the majority of the players portion of revenue aren’t ready to give in. I’m sure players like Crosby who make millions can sit out longer. Never said it was fair.

]]> By: spiciercheez http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/12/meeting-with-mediator-wraps-for-the-day-nhl-offer-back-on-the-table/comment-page-1/#comment-118093 Thu, 13 Dec 2012 00:46:25 +0000 http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=883960#comment-118093 NHL was** making record revenue, haha. It’s too bad that the superstar players are basically dictating this whole process. Everyone knows the guys with smaller contracts/lesser roles in general want to be out there now….

]]> By: chrisvegas http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/12/meeting-with-mediator-wraps-for-the-day-nhl-offer-back-on-the-table/comment-page-1/#comment-118092 Thu, 13 Dec 2012 00:42:47 +0000 http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=883960#comment-118092 I disagree. If the players give in to much this lockout the owners will continue to take more and more every CBA negotiation. Give them an inch and they’ll take a foot. The players need to stay strong.

]]> By: id4joey http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/12/meeting-with-mediator-wraps-for-the-day-nhl-offer-back-on-the-table/comment-page-1/#comment-118088 Thu, 13 Dec 2012 00:37:52 +0000 http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=883960#comment-118088 Holy crap! Very good strategy if you’re looking for a fight. Very poor strategy from a financial perspective. You have to pick your battles. You know. Like Sean Avery always avoided the heavy fights, but played like he was one. He knew he had to pick his battles to put all chances on his side. And when he fought, his arms were so extended during the fight that he got treated for hyper extension after the game. Anyway! Players! Pick your battles. This is not one you want to have.

]]> By: chrisvegas http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/12/meeting-with-mediator-wraps-for-the-day-nhl-offer-back-on-the-table/comment-page-1/#comment-118087 Thu, 13 Dec 2012 00:32:10 +0000 http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=883960#comment-118087 @id4joey – The owners are getting out of the contracts they agreed to as recently as this summer. The owners are bullying the players at a time when the NHL is making record revenue. All one has to do is listen to their rhetoric. The players are being bullied with the owner’s take it or leave it attitude. It is easy for billionaires to intimidate the less fortunate.

]]> By: id4joey http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/12/meeting-with-mediator-wraps-for-the-day-nhl-offer-back-on-the-table/comment-page-1/#comment-118086 Thu, 13 Dec 2012 00:31:11 +0000 http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=883960#comment-118086 The PA protocol requires that the 13 player negotiating committee unanimously accept that the deal shall be proposed to the membership. They can veto Fehr’s decision. Honestly, the players hired Fehr for this very reason. After the Goodenow/Saskin/Kelly eras they decided to hire Fehr to avoid another slaughter.

]]> By: id4joey http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/12/meeting-with-mediator-wraps-for-the-day-nhl-offer-back-on-the-table/comment-page-1/#comment-118084 Thu, 13 Dec 2012 00:25:29 +0000 http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=883960#comment-118084 They will play the we are united and stand by Fehr card publicly. However, there is going to be plenty of lobbying behind the scenes to rally the players to accept whatever is on the table. Guaranteed.

]]> By: id4joey http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/12/meeting-with-mediator-wraps-for-the-day-nhl-offer-back-on-the-table/comment-page-1/#comment-118083 Thu, 13 Dec 2012 00:23:20 +0000 http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=883960#comment-118083 How are they being cheated? Anyway. They have a choice, either lose big (100%) or lose small (12%). Their choice.

]]> By: chrisvegas http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/12/meeting-with-mediator-wraps-for-the-day-nhl-offer-back-on-the-table/comment-page-1/#comment-118075 Thu, 13 Dec 2012 00:09:00 +0000 http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=883960#comment-118075 The owners think the players will crack first, and they will if they give in this season. If the players want to win they need to be willing to miss this season and part of next, and if they aren’t willing they should just give in now so we can have some hockey. The owners set themselves up nicely to miss an entire season knowing the players will most likely cave first. However, I really hope the owners lose on this. I’m tired of their lockouts. Also they act like they are losing money when the NHL is thriving. If the players want to win they have to be willing to miss more then one season, if not give in now.

]]> By: chrisvegas http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/12/meeting-with-mediator-wraps-for-the-day-nhl-offer-back-on-the-table/comment-page-1/#comment-118073 Thu, 13 Dec 2012 00:05:33 +0000 http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=883960#comment-118073 They said leave it. Can’t blame them, nobody likes to be cheated.

]]> By: mattyo99 http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/12/meeting-with-mediator-wraps-for-the-day-nhl-offer-back-on-the-table/comment-page-1/#comment-118069 Thu, 13 Dec 2012 00:00:00 +0000 http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=883960#comment-118069 Well if cumbs mean alot of $$ i’ll take it, those players will still be rich

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