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NHL presents NHLPA with counter-proposal

Dec 5, 2012, 6:14 PM EST

Gary Bettman AP

Funny how fast negotiations can move when two sides actually want to make a deal.

Shortly after the NHLPA presented the NHL with a new proposal this afternoon in New York, the NHL reportedly went right back and presented the NHLPA with a counter-proposal.

No details of either proposal have been reported, but with each side having made a presentation, each side now knows where the other stands.

It’s not clear if owners and players will get together again this evening, or if they’ll retire to their separate corners and sleep on today’s events. (Update: they’ll reportedly talk after dinner.)

According to Sportsnet’s Doug Maclean, both sides are working to get a deal done by Friday.

One other bit of scuttlebutt making the rounds is that the NHL wants a 10-year CBA.

109 Comments (Feed for Comments)
  1. id4joey - Dec 5, 2012 at 6:20 PM

    Oh! Oh! The owners want their way. Voices in NY are saying that the counter offer is a little of the mark, but may be good enough if the players are willing to give in.

    • woodstakes - Dec 5, 2012 at 6:29 PM

      I don’t see this as the owners saying “We want it our way…” as you like to point out every single time a counter proposal is made. I really doubt this will get done on each side making 1 proposal each. There will be at least 3-5 more proposals before this is done. Presumably one side gives a little then the other side and back and forth until its done. You know… NEGOTIATIONS!

    • steelpenbucs87 - Dec 5, 2012 at 6:32 PM

      Hey Joey! I can make reasonable assumptions too and pass them off like I’m getting new information from an inside source!

      MY sources are telling me that NHL’s counter proposal was the closest that the owners have dared get but there are still some details to iron out.

      My sources are saying that some of the players are beginning to look hard at taking the proposal as is!

      See – now I look like a genius and I didn’t actually say anything. You’re essentially doing the same trick that the guy from TV used to do when he would talk to audience member’s dead relatives.

    • stakex - Dec 5, 2012 at 6:41 PM

      Sources in your head, more like it.

      Also, its not about either side wanting it “their way”…. its called negotiating.

    • mgp1219 - Dec 5, 2012 at 9:18 PM

      little joey,
      please go away to some deserted island and take blomfeld & valoisvipers with you.

      thank you very much.

      • blomfeld - Dec 5, 2012 at 9:57 PM

      • valoisvipers - Dec 6, 2012 at 9:07 AM

        It seems like mpg1219 doesn’t want to wear the french maid uniform I guess we will need a new maid. Dam it Joey good help is hard to get.

    • 1943mrmojorisin1971 - Dec 6, 2012 at 1:43 AM

      What has this site deteriorated to? I liked it a lot more before it became a dumping ground for the mindless ramblings of the insane.

  2. ludacrish05 - Dec 5, 2012 at 6:21 PM

    Hope!!!! All I can do is pray and hope!!!!

  3. tehboush - Dec 5, 2012 at 6:23 PM

    scuttlebutt

    • ucaneverscorenoughgoals - Dec 5, 2012 at 8:06 PM

      I like bIg butts and I cannot lie, you others brothers can’t deny, when a girl walks in with an itty bitty waste and a round thing in your face you get sprung!

  4. General Lee 1175 - Dec 5, 2012 at 6:25 PM

    Joey and the voices he makes up in head lol so amusing. Cant wait to hear the reaction when this thing drags on another month

    • blomfeld - Dec 5, 2012 at 9:58 PM

  5. General Lee 1175 - Dec 5, 2012 at 6:28 PM

    Ya know Joey , maybe if you didnt try to act like an important insider with BS ‘sourcs” you make up then 3/4 of the folks that post on this board wouldnt mock the living shi&t out of you…. me on the other hand I could care less if I get mocked or not … you on the other hand live and die by this lol

    • id4joey - Dec 5, 2012 at 7:25 PM

      Says the guy who can’t spell sources and comes here to get reactions out of people.

      General Lee 1175
      Dec 5, 2012, 1:02 AM EST

      seeing how I just got you to react like with anger …

      • valoisvipers - Dec 5, 2012 at 8:35 PM

        Joey You will have to forgive Gen Lee’s spelling as it’s hard for him to type while he’s doing his cousin.

    • blomfeld - Dec 5, 2012 at 10:07 PM

  6. capesouth - Dec 5, 2012 at 6:33 PM

    the longer the CBA the better. The game can’t make progress when a lockout occurs every 6 or 7 years. Plus, 10 years from now, Bettman may be gone and we’ll have a new commish who doesn’t allow this to happen all the time.

    • stakex - Dec 5, 2012 at 6:43 PM

      Bettman is not, and never was the problem. He himself cannot drag the NHL into a lockout. Its the owners, which employ him, that vote for the lockout.

      Don’t get me wrong, I hate Bettman… but the one thing I will give him is that the lockout is not his fault, and there is little he can personal do to end it.

      • capesouth - Dec 5, 2012 at 6:59 PM

        Owners in hockey are no more stubborn than owners in other leagues. I’m going on his track record. This is the third stoppage under his watch, one lasting an entire season, which has never happened in any other sport. Granted, he can’t cause it all by himself but he is in a powerful position and obviously isn’t much help when it comes to these matters. After all that has happened, a new commissioner would only help prevent these drawn out lockouts.

      • ucaneverscorenoughgoals - Dec 5, 2012 at 8:15 PM

        Stakex is right though in the fact that Bettman gets paid to be the face of the owners. If each one of the owners had to publicly declare whether they wanted a lockout or not and what they were willing to accept, most couldn’t do it. The fan and player resentment towards particular owners would be astronomical compared to what it is now. So, part of what they pay Bettman for is to bear the brunt of the criticism.

  7. cspsrbums - Dec 5, 2012 at 6:34 PM

    Don’t pay this clown Joey any mind Hope his voices in NY tell him to go jump off a bridge or at least get out of the owners a..es all he does is repeat the same thing over and over one day he’ll get it right now please go away

  8. id4joey - Dec 5, 2012 at 6:46 PM

    lol! You guys are making me laugh. I love your responses. Keep them coming.

    • General Lee 1175 - Dec 5, 2012 at 6:53 PM

      it’s probably the only attention you ever get in life so no wonder you crave and need it

    • mgp1219 - Dec 5, 2012 at 9:26 PM

      oh little joey,
      reverse psychology? not gonna work. we all know how you live for the almighty thumbs up.
      everything you say is simply useless.

      • blomfeld - Dec 5, 2012 at 10:08 PM

  9. whatthepuck2012 - Dec 5, 2012 at 6:53 PM

    I can’t stand the little troll either, but I’ve also been spending a large part of the lockout trying to convince people that this isn’t Bettman’s doing.

    • zetaone - Dec 5, 2012 at 7:10 PM

      I don’t totally blame Bettman. How can you? BUT, one quote from him (among many bad ones I’m sure) still leaves a bad taste in my mouth. It was back in August I believe, and I’m paraphrasing but he said:

      “We believe we are paying the players too much” And then shortly after he made up his Sept 15th lockout deadline.

      I know he is just a shill for the owners.. but he doesn’t help himself any either.

  10. irokkit - Dec 5, 2012 at 7:04 PM

    It’s about f’n time. hats off to the players.
    And 10 years sounds fantastic to me!!!

  11. thedavesiknowiknow - Dec 5, 2012 at 7:06 PM

  12. irokkit - Dec 5, 2012 at 7:06 PM

    @ Joey

    Go fetch the ball……

    • blomfeld - Dec 5, 2012 at 10:10 PM

  13. id4joey - Dec 5, 2012 at 7:08 PM

    Yes, sir, General Lee, sir. My life is an empty shell. Have not left the house in decades. What’s all your excuse for giving me the attention? Do you all feel empowered by your responses? Oh! Is empowered too much for your little brains to comprehend? Lol!

  14. ducksk - Dec 5, 2012 at 7:10 PM

    56 games start dec 20th. Have me seat and reservation at my favorite bar before. You (and I) that have shown frustration, it’s all good. Lets get back to hating each others teams. Philly sucks!

    • zetaone - Dec 5, 2012 at 7:33 PM

      GO SABRES!! Habs and Bruins can suck it!

      • antkowiak666 - Dec 5, 2012 at 9:26 PM

        Miller and Lucic are BFF’S….i loved watching Miller go down,that was hilarious.

      • imleftcoast - Dec 5, 2012 at 9:37 PM

        Even in the lockout, the Bruins still suck.

    • blomfeld - Dec 5, 2012 at 10:29 PM

      @ducksk – yes friend, Dec 20th is “exactly” what’s going to happen ! :)

      GO KINGS GO !!! … Stanley Cup Champs and absolute “best” team in the world today !!!

  15. neelymessier - Dec 5, 2012 at 7:27 PM

    The probem remains the same. Bettman has made a series of blunders trying to do things that worked in the NBA. According to Forbes, only 18 of 30 franchises are profitable. This is mainly due to expansion and rule changes. 6 of 12 losing money are in warm weather areas. Rather than owners sharing revenue, short of any meaningful national TV contract, they ask future players to give up money and grandfather in the existing contracts they offered which they no longer want to allow. The league should contract. The quality of play would be much higher, and the league would not be punishing the players for contracts signed by both player and team.

    • ucaneverscorenoughgoals - Dec 5, 2012 at 8:21 PM

      I agree the level of play would be much higher if the league contracted a few teams. Unfortunately the union would never approve that because they would be losing 60 or more jobs.

      No union is going to approve something that takes jobs away.

      Even so, you’re right the number of teams has watered down the product.

  16. General Lee 1175 - Dec 5, 2012 at 7:30 PM

    Stanley Cup Prediction , yes ya’ll heard it here first the SC Finals will be Nashville vs Carolina!

    • zetaone - Dec 5, 2012 at 7:35 PM

      Nothing would give a Canadian fan more nightmares than that.

      • ucaneverscorenoughgoals - Dec 5, 2012 at 8:26 PM

        I’m not even canadian and I’d have a tought time watching that

      • lostpuppysyndrome - Dec 5, 2012 at 9:11 PM

        Can you imagine the ratings…flop that would be?

    • blomfeld - Dec 5, 2012 at 10:32 PM

      says the Q who hates hockey and predicts that the sport is dead … what a complete joke …

  17. id4joey - Dec 5, 2012 at 7:37 PM

    Ok. You all have my email. Send me yours and I will send you pictures of the SC at the open house. In case you missed it perhaps our General would like to remind you. General, the honor is all yours?

    • General Lee 1175 - Dec 5, 2012 at 7:55 PM

      As irokkit ordered you to do

      Go fetch the ball……lil feller

  18. dhillca - Dec 5, 2012 at 7:55 PM

    What a weird bunch you all are….go bruins! Habs fans go eat a bowl of dicks.

    • imleftcoast - Dec 5, 2012 at 9:39 PM

      You mean suck a bag of dicks Bruins fans.

  19. id4joey - Dec 5, 2012 at 8:03 PM

    My email is GeneralLee1175@gmail.com. Lol big feller.

  20. mnwildfan15 - Dec 5, 2012 at 8:09 PM

    Word around town is players are to report on ice Monday

    • ucaneverscorenoughgoals - Dec 5, 2012 at 8:28 PM

      What town? Steubenville Ohio?

    • imleftcoast - Dec 5, 2012 at 9:50 PM

      You mean ‘voices in NY’? I’m waiting for something more than word and voices to get my hopes up.

      • blomfeld - Dec 5, 2012 at 10:34 PM

        you are eh ? .. well then, check this out pal …

  21. acieu - Dec 5, 2012 at 8:15 PM

    Report on Ice: it’s cold and hard like Donald Fehr’s heart.

  22. flyeredup - Dec 5, 2012 at 8:20 PM

    BREAKING: idjoey is reporting that sources have told her that the NHL will use black pucks if they come to an agreement.

    • General Lee 1175 - Dec 5, 2012 at 8:23 PM

      Breaking news id4joey and dumbfeld just got engaged! the ceremony will take palce in provincetown massachusetts

    • ucaneverscorenoughgoals - Dec 5, 2012 at 8:30 PM

      Seee! And who said there wasn’t enough diversity in hockey?

  23. whatthepuck2012 - Dec 5, 2012 at 8:21 PM

    Y’all are a fun group!

  24. dhillca - Dec 5, 2012 at 8:33 PM

    General lee do you drive one of those cool old Chargers?

    • General Lee 1175 - Dec 5, 2012 at 8:38 PM

      naw i drive a chevy Z71 4×4 truck … it’s older 2001

  25. dhillca - Dec 5, 2012 at 8:39 PM

    He calls his penis ‘cousin’ ? That’s funny man!

  26. dhillca - Dec 5, 2012 at 8:42 PM

    Has a gun rack right?

  27. General Lee 1175 - Dec 5, 2012 at 8:44 PM

    naw no gun rack my guns are locked up in the living room

    • imleftcoast - Dec 5, 2012 at 9:51 PM

      Thumbs up for locking up your guns. Nice to see some responsible ownership (no pun intended).

  28. akmd1984 - Dec 5, 2012 at 8:46 PM

    Hey guys! You’re four freakin months to late! This all should’ve happened in August. The fact that these idiots were ok with wiping out 3 months if regular season on hockey is disgusting.

    Please get this done, FAST!

  29. sportsfan69 - Dec 5, 2012 at 8:54 PM

    dhillca and General Lee 1175 are staring in a new movie called Broke Back Mountain II, where the hillbillies share their passionate gun and truck stories with each other.

    • General Lee 1175 - Dec 5, 2012 at 9:38 PM

      sportsfa*g arent you the one that whines over racist comments I supposedly make ?? and arent you the one who called me a hom*ophobic when I said you and joey were attached at the hip?? , yeah nice try with your reverse psychology lol

      • zetaone - Dec 5, 2012 at 10:39 PM

        I’m the one who dropped a paragraph or two of hard logic on you for defending a racist and calling me a.. what was it.. a “liberal pu$$y” lol. Even though I have no political affiliation.

        But somehow standing up for human rights and equality makes you a wuss according to your logic :/ Whether you’re a racist or not, who knows.

  30. sportsfan69 - Dec 5, 2012 at 8:57 PM

    Which is Blomfeld?

  31. sportsfan69 - Dec 5, 2012 at 8:59 PM

    Correction, Where is Blomfeld?

    • General Lee 1175 - Dec 5, 2012 at 9:40 PM

      making out with your alter ego joey

    • blomfeld - Dec 5, 2012 at 9:54 PM

      WHICH, WHERE or WHAT doesn’t matter …

      @Sportsfan – I’m here friend and thanks for inquiring. Now I don’t know about you, but this may possibly be the most “childish and retarded” thread that I’ve ever read anywhere ? And it’s especially dumbfounding when you consider that many of these same names had the nerve to go at me just for posting an Elvis video ? … truly unbelievable.

      Anyway, I think we’re looking pretty good right now. I’ve just heard that the owners took 15 minutes to review the player’s latest offer and then walked off without further comment ? To me that says one thing and “one” thing only … we’re now at the final dramatic scene here in Bettman’s little charade, where “all will be well” in the end ! I’m now convinced beyond a reasonable doubt that the final “fake” press conference will occur either tomorrow or on Friday, when it will be announced that we’re “magically” back in business ! :)

  32. mnhockey24 - Dec 5, 2012 at 9:17 PM

    maybe this is the beer talking but i wish the boogy man was still here to attend these meetings put some fear into the owners to get a deal done

  33. mgp1219 - Dec 5, 2012 at 9:37 PM

    let me do this one more time:
    ban id4joey!!
    ban blomfeld!!

    • blomfeld - Dec 5, 2012 at 10:23 PM

    • zetaone - Dec 5, 2012 at 10:43 PM

      They are merely comic relief on this site. They are harmless. If you want to ban anybody, get rid of General Adolf 1175.

  34. sadhockeyfan - Dec 5, 2012 at 10:03 PM

    10year CBA? Not gonna happen. Sorry kids, see ya next fall.

  35. id4joey - Dec 5, 2012 at 10:08 PM

    mgp1219, How many times to you have to put your hand in the fire before you realize it’s hot? Only a moron tries and tries knowing the outcome will not differ.

  36. id4joey - Dec 5, 2012 at 10:11 PM

    BREAKING: flyerdup is reporting that sources have told it that the NHL will resume playing if they come to an agreement.

  37. id4joey - Dec 5, 2012 at 10:13 PM

    Breaking news id4joey and dumbfeld just got engaged! the ceremony will take palce in provincetown massachusetts

    Look for your invitations from GeneralLee1175@gmail.com.

  38. id4joey - Dec 5, 2012 at 10:16 PM

    big mpg1219, please come to some deserted island with me, blomfeld & valoisvipers. We need a maid.

    thank you very much.

  39. id4joey - Dec 5, 2012 at 10:27 PM

    Voices in my head are saying a 6 year deal minimum. Could be more.

    • zetaone - Dec 5, 2012 at 10:45 PM

      You get hacked or have you finally snapped?

      • id4joey - Dec 5, 2012 at 11:10 PM

        Snapped? Nah! More like crackled and popped. Just having fun with the kids. Lol.

        BTW, Just saying it happened again. Where are the doubters?

        This reported; Crosby, along with his agent Pat Brisson and Penguins co-owners Mario Lemieux and Ron Burkle together have the credibility on all sides to encourage dialogue and allow hard-liners to soften without losing face.

        id4joey | Dec 5, 2012, 11:38 AM EST
        Pat Brisson is playing a huge role as a mentor to Crosby. A lot of his input will be in the players presentation.

        You should all be appreciative of the info I share with you. If PHT writes the article you all take it as the gospel.

      • woodstakes - Dec 6, 2012 at 1:07 AM

        See joey like what you just did here… I really don’t have a problem with you.. at least not like a lot of the others throwing hate at you. The only thing that bothers me about you is you just love to “repost” stuff you’ve posted in the past in order to make yourself look like a big shot insider or something. If you really have insider info.. GREAT MAN good for you! You got to go somewhere and see the SC and hang with some NHL’ers awesome for you! You think your the only one here who knows/hangs with famous people? Its cool that you get to do that… but why in the world would you announce it to people and not think they are either A) Going to think your a liar or B) Just think your a D-bag attention whore who needs to look like a big ‘important’ person and then act all surprised when people think your a tool?

        Why, do you have to continually copy and paste threads that you’ve already stated? Does it really mean that much to you to be able to go back 3 weeks and say.. “Look I was right?” I mean its one thing to simply say “I stated earlier that blah blah blah..” but its totally another to go back and find old posts and copy and paste them to back up what your saying.. or do you have an open document that you put all of your posts in just so you can copy them and repost them?? Thats the only thing that irritates me. A lot of the time I like reading your insights on things.. but not 4,5 or 6 times.

        So I guess all i’m saying is try restating things if people call you out THEN repost it.. don’t do it right away.. you just come off as an A-hole and I guess I really don’t think you are. I just think you really care about hockey and have thoughts, info and comments like the rest of us. Most of us don’t need to feed our ego’s in order to make other perceive us in any ‘special’ way.

      • valoisvipers - Dec 6, 2012 at 9:31 AM

        Woodstakes I don’t believe that our friend Joey could care less about what people here or anywhere outside of his personal world think about him. As you admit you like to read his intelligent thought provoking posts ,you should then realize that he is indeed just having fun in cyber space, poking at trolls and rednecks.

      • id4joey - Dec 6, 2012 at 9:54 AM

        woodstakes, you don’t have a problem with my comments, but, don’t like my re-posts. Fair enough. For some reason you think I do it to make me look like a big shot insider or whatever. Fair enough. And there are some who don’t give a damn that I re-post, and I’m wiling to bet that some of them see the humor. You, not. You’re entitled to your likes or dislikes. “Never judge a man until you walk a mile in his shoes” You can’t sit behind a keyboard and know all about a person behind another keyboard. It matters little what you or others think about my SC open house comment. Again, I’m willing to bet some others here see the humor, dry as it maybe at times. Who said hanging out with players and the SC wad such a big thing? Let alone getting an invite. For all you know it could be a charity event which requires a donation. Again, I think some see the humor, or perhaps the irony of such a post.

        Look, the question you should ask yourself is why do re-posts irritate you? And for your info, 99% of my comments are made from a mobile device which is not very user friendly because I use NBC Sports Talk for mobile devices. The alternative is to use an editor, as used for this comment, and its automatically saved with a date/time stamp. Another reason for using an editor is because this site is not the greatest and most efficient. Many attempts to post a comment have failed and the comment lost in a black hole. So, rather than re-typing the same posts you can copy $ paste. Kudos to you for asking. This is not a very serious message board, so I’ll respond with seriousness when the situation requires it, and at times with the irony and humor that the situation requires. I really don’t care what people like or dislike about me or my comments.

        Thanks for your advice about when to and when to not re-post.

        Gotta run! There is a call coming in from NY.

        Take care.

  40. daburghdabest - Dec 5, 2012 at 11:02 PM

    Most of the hockey writers on twitter have become unreadable tonight. If Daly isn’t smiling when he walks to the restroom they’re all “OMG THE SEASON IS DOOMED! NOT LOOKING GOOD!”

    Calm the f*** down. They’re negotiating. If there isn’t a deal by Friday night feel free to flip out all you want.

    • zetaone - Dec 5, 2012 at 11:09 PM

      That’s why this website is the closest thing I’ll get to anything like twitter.

  41. whatthepuck2012 - Dec 5, 2012 at 11:02 PM

    It’a like half the comments are invisible to me…

  42. mmcneels81 - Dec 5, 2012 at 11:04 PM

    Wow. This is the most asinine comments section on the internet. Finally some good news and this is the response? This reads like an argument between five-year-olds. A total embarrassment. Great job, guys.

  43. sportsfan69 - Dec 5, 2012 at 11:09 PM

    All right the man of reasoning is here, Blomfeld…..

    Go Kings! Go Hockey! Yeah, I had to take a little pot shot at our toxic friends dhillca and General Lee 1175.

    They left themselves opened for a little fun. It’s not out of hate. The Hillbillies need a little loving too. LMAO!

    • blomfeld - Dec 6, 2012 at 2:54 AM

      AND THE OSCAR GOES TO … MISSISSIPPIMUDSLINGER !!! (AKA General Lee 1175)

      @Sportsfan69 – Friend, these are indeed “good times” as NHL hockey is about to again be finally back in business ! What a wonderful Christmas present eh ? :) Anyway, don’t worry about these retards like Mississippimudslinger, dhillca, mpg1219, mcneels81 and daburghdabest. Even here in a remote and anonymous “electronic” forum like PHT, people like them can’t help being drawn together by their pathetic and predictable banter. Yet it’s also likely that in reality, they’re probably just a “good” bunch of guys, no different than everyone else who posts here at PHT.

      *** SPECIAL VIDEO PRESENTATION FOR MISSISSIPPIMUDSLINGER ****

      • valoisvipers - Dec 6, 2012 at 10:10 AM

        Too funny Blomfeld, great selection for miss mud.

  44. id4joey - Dec 5, 2012 at 11:18 PM

    As I predicted a couple of days ago, if a deal is made within the next 2 days, training camp will start Dec 14 followed by the start of the season between dec 21 and 24. This information comes directly from NY. Coaches have already started to reach out to players. Go Sid & Pat.

    id4joey | Nov 26, 2012, 5:30 PM EST
    Still optimistic and hopeful they can come to terms before Dec 7th.

    • zetaone - Dec 5, 2012 at 11:21 PM

      While I believe you to be full of it, I sure do would love if you were right.

      • zetaone - Dec 5, 2012 at 11:22 PM

        Lol @ my grammar.

  45. proudliberal85392 - Dec 5, 2012 at 11:30 PM

    We getting close to my Yotes vs. your Kings, blomfeld? We’ll be ready for you!

    • blomfeld - Dec 6, 2012 at 3:02 AM

      STAND BY FRIEND !

      We Kings are a coming ! … and for you, we’re a coming first ! :)

  46. savior72 - Dec 5, 2012 at 11:38 PM

    Here’s how the proposals went down- Owners: We want more money! Players- No, We want the money! Well, they tried.

  47. savior72 - Dec 5, 2012 at 11:47 PM

    Whoa! Who lit up this stink hole?

  48. kitshky - Dec 6, 2012 at 12:10 AM

    Soo … apparently the lockout has finally driven most of you completely nuts, bound to happen I ‘spose.

    • blomfeld - Dec 6, 2012 at 3:09 AM

      @Kitshky – With all due respect, I would submit that it’s possibly “you” friend who may be nuts ? Nonetheless, God bless you and your Canucks and God speed …

  49. beelza - Dec 6, 2012 at 3:55 AM

    Bettman, Fehr, NHL can kiss my white ass. This all could have been avoided. Cancelling the Winter Classic was the biggest F.U. to the fans and it was my breaking point. So players are making money overseas, owners are saving money here and the fans, well bendover. It’s ok Gary, keep up your brilliant strategy of moving franchises to locations were a monkey’s research will show the location is not sustainble given the present biz models. So this year we’ll new teams in Hawaii, Nebraska and Japan. Good Boy Gary.

  50. acieu - Dec 6, 2012 at 6:27 AM

    If the NHL would just sponsor a NASCAR racing team or two southern attendance would skyrocket! Problem solved in the Southeastern US.

    • valoisvipers - Dec 7, 2012 at 3:24 PM

      That just might work acieu.

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