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Fehr: “No reciprocity” from NHL after NHLPA proposal

Nov 21, 2012, 3:20 PM EDT

Donald Fehr AP

Here we go again.

According to NHLPA executive director Donald Fehr, there was “no reciprocity in any meaningful sense” from the NHL after the players submitted a new CBA proposal Wednesday in New York.

“Nothing on significant economic issues,” Fehr told reporters, as per the Canadian Press.

No further talks between the two sides are planned.

“Our task is to go back and report to the players,” Fehr said. “One of you is going to ask me what happens next and the answer is I don’t know.”

While nobody expected the NHL to agree to the players’ proposal in full, the union (and fans) hoped it would gain a certain amount of traction with the owners. Based on Fehr’s comments, that doesn’t appear to be the case.

  1. slickvb82 - Nov 21, 2012 at 3:21 PM

    big flippin surprise. cancel the season already and let the fans move on.

  2. mississippimudslinger - Nov 21, 2012 at 3:22 PM

    nah nah nah nah
    nah nah nah nah
    hey hey hey

    • kitshky - Nov 22, 2012 at 2:35 AM

      Technically you’ve jinxed an outcome .. sooo … now we’re gonna have a season!!

  3. xaf605 - Nov 21, 2012 at 3:22 PM

    Screw off nhl!

  4. davemeisner - Nov 21, 2012 at 3:24 PM

    Well that doesn’t sound good…

  5. ratflop - Nov 21, 2012 at 3:27 PM

    Holy crap NHL – can you at least try to appear as if you are willing to negotiate and salvage the season?

  6. sjsharks66 - Nov 21, 2012 at 3:28 PM

    Well that’s the last time I become optimistic…

    • ThatGuy - Nov 21, 2012 at 3:30 PM

      Until the next time right?

  7. mississippimudslinger - Nov 21, 2012 at 3:29 PM

    oh where oh where is the nerd herd of eternal optimists on here now?? .. paging mrs joey!! paging mrs joey , you have a wet spill to clean up in the soda and juice aisle !!

    • ratflop - Nov 21, 2012 at 3:31 PM

      Just don’t go quoting yourself.

  8. chrisvegas - Nov 21, 2012 at 3:29 PM

    Again the owners are being unreasonable and can’t take this proposal and meet them half way. The owners are the reason this lockout will continue as the players did move in their direction. Thank the owners people. 3 lockouts in 7 years. Nobody said they had to accept the offer in full, but what they could have done was use this proposal and countered. Owner’s additude is it is our way or no way and that is the reason this lockout continues.

    • chrisvegas - Nov 21, 2012 at 3:30 PM

      3 lockouts in 20 years I meant.

      • slickvb82 - Nov 21, 2012 at 3:35 PM

        dude, quit with your owners this/that bs. sorry, but its all you ever say. you know a mere fraction of the actual specifics. you simply just have this hatred for rich people.

      • thebigeasy2002 - Nov 21, 2012 at 3:41 PM

        @chrisvegas – Don’t listen to slick as he hasn’t a clue. Nothing wrong with being disappointed in the Owners for making us endure another lockout.

      • chrisvegas - Nov 21, 2012 at 3:49 PM

        @diclickingslick – The owners are in the wrong so I’ll keep pointing that out. I’m not against rich people (A good number of the players are millionaires), I’m just against rich people taking advantage of everyone else. Billionaires who get bailed out at the taxpayer’s expense. It has been happening a lot the last 5 years, though you probably didn’t notice. The NHL owners who are making record revenue who are crying like they are losing money. It’s a joke. There shouldn’t be a lockout. Other leagues owners avoid lockouts, but the NHL owners don’t. I’m angry with them and rightfully so. 3 lockouts in 20 years is unacceptable. Everyone should be upset with them.

      • slickvb82 - Nov 21, 2012 at 3:50 PM

        @bigeasy2002 – side with mr. rich people hater all you want. its one thing to make a educated response, its quite another to say the same damn thing every time.

      • slickvb82 - Nov 21, 2012 at 3:52 PM

        “diclickingslick” there’s the educated response I’m looking for!!! douchebag

      • joeb2 - Nov 21, 2012 at 5:19 PM

        The owners ARE losing money – an estimated 16-18 teams lose money per Forbes. You may want to believe a blogger on sbnation with his questionable analysis that was pretty easily called out on the comments, but I will stick with Forbes for accuracy on the state of the NHL franchises.until proof appears otherwise.

        This problem is a shared problem with BOTH the owners and the players at fault. And the biggest loser is us fans!

      • chrisvegas - Nov 21, 2012 at 6:35 PM

      • chrisvegas - Nov 21, 2012 at 6:38 PM

        joeb2 read that article for the truth on the Forbes article. The rich are always losing money it is a wonder how any of them stay rich.

      • joeb2 - Nov 21, 2012 at 11:06 PM

        You keep referencing the same blog post that is wrong. Here is his logic:
        “For instance, last year, the Colorado Avalanche reported $7M more in gate receipts than the Florida Panthers, despite the Panthers drawing 1,100 more fans per game and having a higher average ticket price.”
        He didnt even bother to look at the fact that the average ticket prices did not include premium seats or luxury suites which completely change the landscape of ticket revenue. The article has some good points, but it does nothing to discredit Forbes, but certainly does show his sloppy research. Is Forbes 100% correct – I doubt it, but until I see something better, or something that would prove them wrong, I will trust their number!

      • woodstakes - Nov 22, 2012 at 1:24 AM

        You guys are all calling for another example of owners greed.. here’s one:

        “Beyond the dissonance between the owners’ desire to pay less and their continued demonstrated ability to pay more, there are hard numbers. In 2003-04, the last season before the only labor-erased season in the history of major North American pro sports, NHL teams paid $1.332 billion in player salaries, according to USA Today’s salary database. In 2011-12, NHL teams paid $1.699 billion in player salaries. Adjusting for inflation, salaries rose just over $84 million over the last eight years, an average of $2.8 million per team.”

        “While salaries are slightly higher than they were eight years ago, NHL revenues are not. In 2003-04, league revenues were $2.1 billion. In 2011-12, that figure reached $3.3 billion.”


        So that’s a difference of $1.2 billion in revenue increase from ’03-’04 to ’11-’12. Teams are paying out $367M more in contracts over the same period of time. So that’s $833M to the plus side, divided by the 32 teams that’s roughly $26M more per team… so if owners are so broke… where is all that money going??? It’s not going to the players, so who??
        IDK apparently a lot of teams are WAY richer than we all thought and maybe if the elites think we should have 30 teams in the locals we do, well maybe they should figure out another way to share the revenue. Because, getting back 7% or even 15% more ISN’T going to save 15-18 teams. Yet, they are unwilling to adjust the way they are doing things; it’s ALL the player salaries that are the problem here. I don’t THINK SO!

      • woodstakes - Nov 22, 2012 at 1:28 AM

        Bah my miscalculation in haste, I realized after I hit post.. should say:

        So that’s a difference of $1.2 billion in revenue increase from ’03-’04 to ’11-’12. Teams are paying out $367M more in contracts over the same period of time. So that’s $833M to the plus side, divided by the 30 teams that’s roughly $27.76M more per team… so if owners are so broke… where is all that money going??? It’s not going to the players, so who??

      • Donkey Hodey - Nov 24, 2012 at 9:53 AM


        The Forbes numbers also don’t include luxury suites, so those dollars have no effect on average ticket prices OR on what Forbes counts as part of their gate receipts; the net effect on the analysis is zero and there’s still an unexplained difference.

        If you’re looking for something believable to show you how skewed the Forbes numbers are, I’d point you to comments made by the NHL during the last lockout which said those numbers are extremely flawed, or by Ted Leonsis when he called the numbers incredibly flawed and said it was precisely because the NHL hides information.

        Believe what you want because it’s easier, but you’re a sucker.

    • slickvb82 - Nov 21, 2012 at 6:52 PM

      @joeb2 – thank you!! Exactly my point every time with this chris character. BOTH sides are at fault, its not just the owners.

      • valoisvipers - Nov 21, 2012 at 11:35 PM

        @slickvb82 You make a lot of valid points but you are trying to educate the remedial class dropouts.Very hard to do but thanks for trying.

  9. capesouth - Nov 21, 2012 at 3:30 PM

    Give it a day before assuming the league will completely shun this offer. If after 24 hours they don’t come back with something productive (vs just saying ‘no’) then we can assume this is going to continue for even longer. Easy to react immediately and emotionally.

  10. coreydm80 - Nov 21, 2012 at 3:30 PM

    I love hockey but I just want it to be over now so I can stop refreshing my phone every 10 seconds

  11. thedavesiknowiknow - Nov 21, 2012 at 3:38 PM

  12. acieu - Nov 21, 2012 at 3:41 PM

    Bust the union! They are all parasites. Keep them locked out!

    • paperlions - Nov 21, 2012 at 4:29 PM

      So….the players whose skill is 100% responsible for all HRR, are the parasites? Not the owner, who only facilitate the exhibitions, after sucking tax payers dry and the pocking more money than the players everyone comes to see….right, it’s the players that are parasites.

      • valoisvipers - Nov 21, 2012 at 11:39 PM

        Well at least 57% REVENUE parasites.

  13. mississippimudslinger - Nov 21, 2012 at 3:53 PM

    Every time I read some of these posts that side with the Players on here I chuckle to myself and wonder if ya’ll actually think you’re players yourselves lol …. I doubt it but … sounded good

  14. bostonboy82 - Nov 21, 2012 at 3:54 PM

    If you missed this story……read the previous 500. Go away NHL.

  15. shotzongoal - Nov 21, 2012 at 3:56 PM

    There has been no reciprocity because the NHL has not responded to their offer yet. Both sides are moving and negotiating now. Finally! The NHL will review the offer come back with some changes and the Union will do the same. Fehr’s remarks are posturing. I don’t think there will be anymore breakdowns and an agreement is at hand..

  16. drewsylvania - Nov 21, 2012 at 4:02 PM

    Can we lock out miss and slick?

    • elvispocomo - Nov 21, 2012 at 4:31 PM

      flyered up too please

  17. flyeredup - Nov 21, 2012 at 4:07 PM

    Great News! Shut down 2013, 2014. 2015 as well! Seeeeee Ya!

  18. mississippimudslinger - Nov 21, 2012 at 4:09 PM

    Drew your life must suck living in pennslytucky

  19. capsrockva - Nov 21, 2012 at 4:10 PM

    I can’t f***ing believe this crap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Please just get the dam thing done for the fans sake really

  20. id4joey - Nov 21, 2012 at 4:16 PM

    I think we can expect the ownership to counter. Ther are at least 2 issues; there is a $100 million gap between the players and owners proposal with respect to players share, and free agency after 8 years instead of 7.

    There is no way the next CBA will expire in 5 years as proposed by the PA. The NHL was founded in 1917, so don’t expect the NHL to agree on that. Smart move by Fehr though. The NHL will be looking to celebrate the 100th anniversary of its existence, avoid a lockout and certainly hoping to recover damages from this lockout.

    • chrisvegas - Nov 21, 2012 at 4:32 PM

      So Fehr is expection another lockout once the next CBA expires? lol

      • id4joey - Nov 21, 2012 at 4:39 PM

        Well! Lol! You can look it that way. But I’m sure you know it’s just about keeping some leverage. What little he has he wants to keep.

  21. jaybird22seven - Nov 21, 2012 at 4:19 PM

    Season is over !!!!

  22. cspsrbums - Nov 21, 2012 at 4:46 PM

    You really think these teams lose money every year this is just a hobby to most owners . They move money to make it look like a loss, so yes the owners are parasites

    • id4joey - Nov 21, 2012 at 4:57 PM

      These guys are owners, and highly competitive. They have a right to increase profits. Simple as that. The players get their chance to increase their take home pay by negotiating new contracts. they have a team of accountants and agents trying to get as much money as possible from the owners. That’s the nature of the business.

  23. sippindasyzurp - Nov 21, 2012 at 4:55 PM

    I live in Winnipeg where the better the deal the owners get, the better it is for the Winnipeg Jets viability long term, plain and simple. The lower the salary cap ceiling, the more chance the Jets have at retaining there young players and potentially making some decent free agent signings.

    So you all can go hating the owners but I am ok for the owners keeping them locked out for the season if it means a better deal for them in the long term, just based solely on the benefit for the team I cheer for.

    Now feel free to rip me to shreds…

    • valoisvipers - Nov 21, 2012 at 11:47 PM

      @sippindasyzurp Good post, it was nice to hear from a small market team’s point of view as I totally agree that for parity to remain in the NHL the owners must get what they need to put the lights back on again.I’m happy that you got your Jets back where they belong.

  24. cspsrbums - Nov 21, 2012 at 5:10 PM

    Yes players can negotiate their contracts just to have the owners lock them out again in 5-7 years so they can get out of paying their contract they agreed on

    • id4joey - Nov 21, 2012 at 5:37 PM

      Yeah! I know, and you’re right. Players will have to sign shorter contracts then, and start exploring alternatives. Like playing overseas. Bottom line they are the employee.

  25. cspsrbums - Nov 21, 2012 at 5:31 PM

    They show that they lose money Leonis moves his money around his business and and the Phone Booth to make it look likes the Caps lose money why do you think he wanted The wizards so so he can move money there. Another losing team. Caps hevea old out the last few years but reported a lose I doubt it.

  26. ermur22 - Nov 22, 2012 at 12:54 AM

    How about contracting some teams? The ones that don’t make money get rid of.

    • woodstakes - Nov 22, 2012 at 1:32 AM

      NHLPA won’t ask for anything like that… they would lose jobs. The Union wants as many jobs at the highest pay they can get.

  27. aventador12 - Nov 22, 2012 at 2:14 PM

    @ sjsharks66: you and me both. (-_-)…

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