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Daly argues players are asking for 65% of HRR for 2012-13 (Updated)

Nov 12, 2012, 6:44 PM EDT


Every now and then a story comes along that sparks a sense of optimism and makes people hopeful that the lockout might finally be reaching its conclusion.

This isn’t one of them.

While it’s still entirely possible that the lockout will end soon, NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly didn’t exactly give optimists a whole lot to latch onto in his recent e-mail to CSNPhilly.

“They have given us no indication they think we are close on economics,” Daly said, referring of course to the NHLPA.

“Maybe you can explain to me how close we are when the union’s last offer requested a ‘guarantee’ of players’ share dollars in excess of $1.9 billion — and a guarantee going up in subsequent years — and we are offering 50% of HRR this year in an environment where we estimate damage to the business of at least $400 million — to this point?

“Their latest offer would have players making 65% of HRR for this year. It’s a funny definition of being ‘close’.”

Update: Steve Fehr’s spokesman said that Daly’s remarks weren’t “accurate.” The union wants to focus on coming to an agreement on an overall system before dealing with the 2012-13 campaign specifically and how to handle the financial losses that this lockout has caused.

They say it’s always darkest before the dawn. Both sides have said a lot of discouraging things over the course of this lockout, but they’ve also had marathon negotiating sessions and have shown signs of progress at various times.

One day these two sides will come to an agreement and they still have a fair amount of time if they want to save this season.


Fehr explains players’ side of contracting issues

Daly shares owners’ stance on contracting issues

  1. bensawesomeness - Nov 12, 2012 at 6:49 PM

    It’s legitimately pathetic that these two sides cant come up with an agreement.
    Christmas. If they dont start playing by Christmas, i’ll have officially lost faith in this sport.

    • bhawksrule - Nov 12, 2012 at 7:03 PM

      You still have a month and a half left in you?

      • bensawesomeness - Nov 12, 2012 at 7:47 PM

        …my local football and basketball teams are below .500- this is about all i have left

    • pajabroni - Nov 13, 2012 at 12:14 AM

      SERIOUSLY…EFF these dudes…both sides.



      • bensawesomeness - Nov 13, 2012 at 1:18 PM

        CAPS LOCK!!!!

  2. sharksfanatic - Nov 12, 2012 at 7:17 PM

    PA needs to drop this guaranteed money stuff. The only reasonable way, with future revenues unknown (certainly negative this year) is a % split. This also gives them some accountability to help the league grow revenues in the future. This could get solved very quickly if the PA gets reasonable.

    • elvispocomo - Nov 12, 2012 at 10:58 PM

      Here’s how I see it: both sides are coming together on the HRR share and related issues, but the NHL hasn’t budged on the contract side of the deal. The NHLPA is then asking for something in return – basically pay us actual value for this season since you locked us out and we’ll give ground on contracts. If the NHL ends up willing to give ground on contracts, then we’ll certainly see the NHLPA willing to do the same on home much they get this year.

      • blomfeld - Nov 13, 2012 at 1:07 AM

        Ain’t Gonna Happen Elvis !

        The bottom line friend, is that should this become a “war of attrition” which it’s now close to becoming, then the rat owners will win this thing in the end “100/100” times ! … sad perhaps but true. And just as sure as the sun will rise tomorrow, fans “will” eventually come back to their rat buildings, whereas fans “will not” be flocking to visit Ovechkin on his retirement farm. Of course Fehr knows this only too well, however he’s perpetrating the false belief that he can prevail, for his own obvious and predictable “selfish” reasons.

        Nonetheless, what really angers me about this entire business is the complete lack of humanity. Just like in ages past, where common soldiers would have to shed their blood because of some spat between Royal Houses, here again we have the common player standing to lose everything because the likes of Kovalchuk want to line their driveways with another Ferrari. The people “should and must” somehow be furnished with a means to strike back at these wealthy and privileged parasites ! The owners, Bettman, Fehr, Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, Parise and others … “they’re” the problem ! And they’re a problem which must be “dealt with” once and for all !

        ps: don’t think I ever offered you an Elvis video ? … sorry man and please enjoy :)

      • elvispocomo - Nov 13, 2012 at 12:51 PM

        You’ve offered everyone an Elvis video.

        It seems like more of a ” if you don’t give, then we’ll take” scenario to me though. I’d be surprised if the NHLPA didn’t come down on this if the NHL is willing to talk about the contract issues they say they have to have.

        Remember, the NHL supposedly offered “the best possible” deal they could give in mid-October and they’ve already given ground on that, so to think they won’t give ground elsewhere is naive. They’ll have to find a middle ground with the NHLPA on that as well.

  3. blomfeld - Nov 12, 2012 at 7:20 PM


    I agree with this “Ben” creature above that this is truly pathetic and that perhaps “something” now needs to happen ? And I say that assuming Dadoun is being sincere with his reporting here, which we’ve no reason to otherwise doubt. Nonetheless, if this what the “Fuhrer” brothers are now actually saying, then perhaps the time has indeed come for Gary and company “change it up” a little ? I’m not a proponent of either mayhem or violence, however there are times when “enough is enough” and certain things have to be “subsequently” done. And it now looks to me friends, that unfortunately this may be such a time ? …

  4. kitshky - Nov 12, 2012 at 7:29 PM

    Such a BS PR spin comment, this is the crap that tires everyone out. Just shut up and negotiate behind close doors.

  5. mpg44 - Nov 12, 2012 at 7:35 PM

    It is complete greed shown by the players and the union to ” guarantee ” that players share increases over the next few years . This completely underminds the whole concept of shared hrr. It WILL ONLY GO UP IF PROFIT GOES UP!!!! You bunch of greedy morons!!!!! This entire dragged out lock out ensures a paycut for both sides if and when the game returns !! And the fact that Fehr has not explained that to the players so they can understand that , seriously shows his own agenda is coming before the players!

    • east96st - Nov 12, 2012 at 8:33 PM

      mpg44 – You have absolutely no idea who is being “greedy” and who is not. You know why? Because the owners haven’t opened their books. You’re taking it at face value that they are being honest about the numbers and the reality is none of us know the REAL money situation. No NHL team is a publicly traded entity. Therefore, none of them file a 10K with SEC. Even if they did, we can’t be sure it’s honest. Does the name Enron ring a bell? They lied to the SEC and investors right up until they went bankrupt. Simplest way to avoid all labor conflicts in major sports would be for the owners to open the books and allow the unions to audit them yearly. Then, no disagreements about revenues can exist. The money is what the money is. But, that will never happen because most sports owners use their teams as patronage mills and/or for nepotism and/or tax write offs. This continuous lashing out about one side or the other being greedy is just nonsense and reflects the writer’s politics. The truth is BOTH sides are greedy and NEITHER side gives a damn about you or me. The sooner you come to terms with that, the better you’ll be able to deal with this.

      • mpg44 - Nov 12, 2012 at 8:52 PM

        Are you not doing the same for the players . You really think they deserve a penny more then 50 % ?? You are absolutely delusional!!

      • sharksfanatic - Nov 12, 2012 at 8:59 PM

        You obviously have NO CLUE how business works!

      • blomfeld - Nov 12, 2012 at 10:52 PM

        EUREKA !

        Of course the owners will “never” be forthcoming with a complete and honest accounting of their revenues and costs ! From their perspective, that’s the “genius” behind this entire business of setting salary levels by a percentage of “apparent” HRR. The players will “never” be made privy to all of the inflated costs and hidden revenues on the owners books … never in a million years ! And therefore the players will never win this fight. Of course Fehr wants them to believe they can for his own selfish purposes. But the reality is that they can’t, while “hoping” they can, makes about as much sense as someone hoping for a visit from the Tooth Fairy.

        The thing that angers me most, is the fact that this is all being driven primarily by the “top” money earners such as Ovechkin, Kovalchuk and Parise. What difference is it really going to make if these guys get 7 million as opposed to 10 million ? At their level of lavish income, dollars and cents have long ago ceased to have any real or significant meaning. Meanwhile, the average player who represent the vast majority, stand to lose everything here in the process. The benefit of a “few” at the expense of many. Yeah, that’s some brotherly union of solidarity they’ve got going, eh ?

        ps: FU Fehr ! … seriously

  6. esracerx46 - Nov 12, 2012 at 8:31 PM

    Wait wait wait wait…….Did I read this correctly? The Layers want 65% of Hockey related revenue? Up 8 percent from the 57% that got them locked out in the first place?! The players want the owners to pay for 500million dollar arenas, and all the maintenance to go with it? not to mention all the vendors. Were not talking about 35 percent of the profit. Were talking 35% of any incoming hockey money. Thats it. The fans are screwed. Everybody start going to AHL, OHL,WHL,QMJHL, ECHL, BCHL, OJHL games because we sure as hell aint seeing NHL. Will someone PLEASE STOP THE FEHR BROTHER BRAINWAHING CENTER!! THEY ARE OUT OF CONTROL!!

    • mpg44 - Nov 12, 2012 at 8:54 PM

      My god …. Why can I only like this once!!!!! Nice to someone else with enough iq to actually realize what’s going on !!!

      • esracerx46 - Nov 13, 2012 at 11:06 AM

        Wow. The brainwashing is worse than I thought. Everybody that thumbs down this do me a favor. Got to your boss(if you have one) and get the other employees. Go into his office and ask very politely…to have 65% of any money that comes in the door. Let me know what he/she says. The players can form their own league. Where they gonna play? Do the players have enough money to buy/lease arenas. Pay employees and vendors and maintenance. And pay all the taxes and fees that come with it? Didnt think so. I was on players side when this started. Not anymore.

    • kitshky - Nov 13, 2012 at 11:46 AM

      @esracerx46 …. No you read it correctly, the issue here is that you swallowed whatever Daly shoved down your throat without a seconds hesitation, and then soundly criticized people who disagreed with you.

      I love people like you who stubbornly support one side of an argument, and then condemn others for … stubbornly supporting one side of an argument.

      • elvispocomo - Nov 13, 2012 at 12:59 PM

        So true. People love to try and argue they’d never get part of revenues in their business but fail to realize the NHL is not a typical industry. The players are not only employees, but also the product so they earn portions of the revenue as a result.

        The players have a point when asking for a full 82 game salary and projected HRR share, since it was the NHL’s choice to lockout and cancel games where the players would have kept playing. It’s not their fault the NHL chose to lose revenue and put the season at risk.

        But the 65% isn’t about the players being greedy as much as it is a bargaining tool to have the owners give a little on the contract issues they have put all in their favour. It’ll change when the owners give a little on contract lengths, RFA/UFA limits and arbitration rights.

  7. bleed4philly - Nov 12, 2012 at 8:40 PM


  8. proudliberal85392 - Nov 12, 2012 at 8:41 PM

    yada, yada, yada.

  9. mpg44 - Nov 12, 2012 at 9:05 PM

    You really need to read a little better , easy96. I guess your missed the part of the players wanting a GAURANTEE of an increase !! That’s the same as you going to a stock broker tomorrow , handing him 10k , and asking him to GUARANTEE a profit !!! Never going to happen. It’s people like you whom I can’t stand , you are so star struck that you will believe anything they tell you!!! GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF THE PA ASS AND OPEN UOU EARS AND EYES!!! STOP BEING A SHEEP AND THINK!!

  10. LoyalFan34yrsGoKings - Nov 12, 2012 at 9:17 PM

    They’re waiting to see if the sun rises on Dec. 22.

  11. antkowiak666 - Nov 12, 2012 at 10:27 PM


  12. phlmt69 - Nov 12, 2012 at 11:03 PM

    F%#k the owners…they agreed to the contracts and spin info like no other. The millions lost is BECAUSE they wanted a lockout rather than negotiate while the game was played. That makes me wonder about a few things… maybe they want contraction. Either way, grown rich men crying about money is so f-ing pathetic; I will spend my time and money elsewhere. F U NHL!!!!!

    • mpg44 - Nov 13, 2012 at 6:44 AM

      I agree with your end result , just not now you got there.

  13. jessejames182 - Nov 13, 2012 at 9:47 AM

    *yawn* Oh, this is still happening? Since it’s been a month since I’ve given up hope I assume a lot has changed. Wait a minute…

  14. hockeydon10 - Nov 13, 2012 at 3:10 PM


    They can’t even agree to how many games will be played for the 2012-13 season, what counts as “Hockey Related Revenue”, let alone how much revenue is going to be generated, or how much more revenue there will be compared to 2011-12, yet Daly comes out with a figure of 65%?

    He’s pulling something out of a dark orifice between his cheeks, and it’s not the one on his face. This is one of the smart guys running the NHL?

  15. ndrick731 - Nov 13, 2012 at 10:43 PM

    Wow. Some mighty stupid people here. Daly comes out with an asinine statement and you jump up to defend the owners. Anything you hear from either side is either an gross exaggeration or an outright lie. There is a simple solution to all of this. Get rid of the hard salary cap and put a progressive luxury tax in with a max on how high you can go over the soft cap. Example Soft cap starts at 55 million. If you go over the cap by up to 4.99 million you pay 50 cents per dollar. 5 million to 9.99 million $1.25 per dollar. 10 million to say a 20 million max cap at $3 per dollar. Take all of that luxury tax money and give it to the small market teams that claim to be losing money. Have those losses verified by an independent outside accounting firm. Any team caught padding losses loses access to any luxury money for that year and the following year and that money goes to other eligible small teams. The more money the rich teams spend the more money the small teams get and have to spend. Of course the problem still exists with teams such as Nashville. There is no way they can possibly make money once they matched the weber offer sheet. But they match it and now expect fans of other teams to subsidize that contract through revenue sharing. The NHL must also trying to force the league into markets that do not support any sports. Any sport putting a team in Florida Atlanta or Phoenix has to be blind to not realize that there will be little fan support. That’s just an historical fact. But this would make no sense to the owners because are all about doing things their way. And look where their way has gotten things.

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