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CBA meeting over after an hour and things didn’t go well

Nov 11, 2012, 3:42 PM EDT

Gary Bettman AP

The two sides got together at the NHL offices in Manhattan at 1:30 this afternoon and things ended less-than amicably.

Renaud Lavoie from RDS hears from NHLPA Executive Director Donald Fehr that there was “discussion for 60 minutes on players contracting. I don’t know when we’ll get back together.”

Even more ominously, Katie Strang of ESPN.com reports Fehr doesn’t currently “see a path to an agreement” when it comes to the contracting issues. NHL Deputy Commissioner Bill Daly tells Pierre LeBrun there was “no progress” in today’s talks.

Meanwhile, NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman reportedly said during the meeting that “we’re past the point of give-and-take.” With an already shortened season and the Winter Classic being canceled, the amount of revenue they’re arguing about for this season is disappearing quickly.

Fehr tells Michael Grange of Sportsnet that Bettman expects the players to accept their deal “to the comma.” So much for compromise.

If you’re looking for a slight upside to all this, Fehr tells Strang “it won’t be too long” before the two sides meet again and that the players’ association would like to move talks back to Toronto.

For now, both Bettman and Bill Daly will head to Toronto for the Hall of Fame induction ceremonies. That shouldn’t be too distracting.

  1. bigoldorcafromvan - Nov 11, 2012 at 4:11 PM

    If this kind of talks keep going there really isn”t going to be much revenue to split up. Lock them out for the full season. Announce it today Gary and when the NHLPA hires a real rep come back and talk to them.

  2. stakex - Nov 11, 2012 at 4:20 PM

    First of all, I don’t believe anything Fehr says. Second, he also expect the owners to accept the players offer as it is. Thats the whole ****ing problem. Both sides have reached their best offer, and its nowhere near close enough.

    Now that might SEEM like both sides are to blame, but it just seems that way. The fact is the players WILL lose in the end. If the owners are at their absolute best offer, they are not going to budge, just like last time. The lockout will only end when the players accept that, and just sign on the dotted line and go back to work.

    I’m not saying I agree with the owners doing that, because I don’t. In an ideal world the new CBO would be fair and balanced… but thats not how the real world works. The players get screwed in the end, and its just a matter of how long they will let Fehr drag this thing out in vain.

  3. Eberwizzle - Nov 11, 2012 at 4:20 PM

    No hockey? No problem!!! Took my boys to their first Sixers game for $7 a ticket and guess what NHL? THEY LOVED IT!!!!!! You just lost 4 fans to a cheaper game. I encourage all fans to go take your family out to an NBA game.

    • stakex - Nov 11, 2012 at 4:21 PM

      Basketball is almost as boring as baseball…. not quite, but almost.

      I’ll wait for hockey.

  4. dutchman1350 - Nov 11, 2012 at 4:23 PM

    Deeper pockets will win this. Owners should cancel the season, and say “call us in Sept.” You will see players go against Fehr.

  5. id4joey - Nov 11, 2012 at 4:27 PM

    dutchman, though I hardly believe the owners will cancel the season, I would be fine if they do. There is money to be made, so I don’t get why they would do that.

    • stakex - Nov 11, 2012 at 6:28 PM

      Perhaps its because half the teams in the NHL actually lose money every year, and would be saving money with a lost season? Thats a fact thats often lost on most fans.

      I know Fehr likes to talk about the record revenue the NHL has been generating of late, and a lot of people buy that line. However “revenue” is not the same thing as “profit”.

  6. dutchman1350 - Nov 11, 2012 at 4:34 PM

    id4joey – it’s about winning at this point (right or wrong). They know Fehr isn’t moving, so they need to turn it up to 11. Players losing a year worth of salary is huge. Plus if they say the same offer will apply next year, players will worry about next years’ pay.

    • id4joey - Nov 11, 2012 at 4:35 PM

      Dutchman, can’t disagree with what our assessment. I’ve read much worse.

  7. nyrnashty - Nov 11, 2012 at 4:39 PM

    It feels like this is getting to a point where the NHL is going to dissolve and a new league might have to be formed. Players might not ever play in this league again. What a shame! If employers don’t pay their employees what they originally agreed to pay them, don’t expect them to come back. I wouldn’t go back on principle of breaching the contract alone and don’t expect them to go back. I don’t care if I get paid $7.00/hour or a billion dollars you pay me what you told me you were going to, or I just work somewhere else until you do!

    • somekat - Nov 11, 2012 at 7:59 PM

      For the 800th time, players get paid a % of NHL revenue. The player salary only applies to decide what chunk of that % they get.

      Comparing it to a contract that you may work, or an hourly rate, is RETARDED!!!

      • valoisvipers - Nov 12, 2012 at 10:59 AM

        Thanks somecat I just don’t get how so many people don’t understand the percentage thing.

  8. xaf605 - Nov 11, 2012 at 4:44 PM

    Thank you nhl for saving me some money this year

  9. mississippimudslinger - Nov 11, 2012 at 5:25 PM

    Ok girls, what part of “Its over” do ya’ll not understand?

  10. jjpileggi - Nov 11, 2012 at 5:33 PM

    The owners must have concluded that hockey will continue to be a “cult” sport and the fans that exist will return, as they did following the last lack-out, and so this is a zero sum game and not a growth story anymore. The league over-expanded in the 1990’s and so the fee income from that activity is gone, and what remains are owners who paid a very steep price of admission and who have unprofitable. The “greater fool” buyers of other sports are in short supply. All this means that owners are willing to sacrifice a season when necessary to get a better deal from a small pie. So, at best we get a short season this year with the prospect of this happening again in a few years, or worse, lose this year.

    John Pileggi

  11. joeyashwi - Nov 11, 2012 at 5:44 PM

    It’s not players vs. owners, it’s Fehr vs. Bettman. Both sides should fire them as neither has done their job. Owners want the season, players want the season, Bettman and Fehr just want to have a d*** measuring contest. Fire them both!

  12. Bill Florin - Nov 11, 2012 at 6:07 PM

    UPDATE (6:01PM) – Additional details have emerged about Sunday’s perceived failure of talks between the NHL and the NHLPA. It was agreed at Saturday’s meeting that Gary Bettman would would bring a Dunkin Donuts Box of Joe, while player representatives were to bring cream cheese and bagels. The players provided cream cheese, but it was the yucky kind with fruit and nuts and was the low-fat variety, according to sources.

    Bettman was heard muttering, “These schmucks can’t even get a bagel and a shmere right. How can we negotiate?”

    It is reported that the players prefer Starbucks coffee. No further talks are scheduled.

  13. mgp1219 - Nov 11, 2012 at 6:13 PM

    For the 5th time, (now everyone repeat after me) the season wil not start before mid-December, if there is a season at all. And I won’t try to include any caveats like +/- any mount of days or weeks. I have a reliable source on this.

    • bjbeliever - Nov 11, 2012 at 7:17 PM

      You’ll just have to forgive us for not really trusting in your “reliable source”

      • mgp1219 - Nov 11, 2012 at 7:44 PM

        I understand and don’t blame you for that.

  14. mississippimudslinger - Nov 11, 2012 at 6:25 PM

    mgp stfu and go away loser, the season is done and every one knows it , to even try and salvage anything at this point would be an embarrassment

    • mgp1219 - Nov 11, 2012 at 6:36 PM

      mrs. sippee mudflapper,
      you consider nascar a sport and you have the audacity to call anyone else a loser?

      I laugh at you with full conviction.

  15. cspsrbums - Nov 11, 2012 at 6:30 PM

    Let the NHL dissolve that would be the best thing that could happen. Let a group of good hockey people start the North American Hockey league or something similar and push all the NHL personnel out of work like they did to all the peoe who rely on that revenue for a living

    • id4joey - Nov 11, 2012 at 7:52 PM

      Idiot. WTF do you know.

    • greatminnesotasportsmind - Nov 11, 2012 at 7:57 PM

      There is almost zero chance of the NHL dissolving and starting a new league. First of all, your going to have to find new owners for X amount teams. None of the current owners would be owning a team, thus eliminating 30 potential owners off the bat. The NFL has a clause in their teams that they can’t own another franchise. That is 62 owners right there alone that won’t have anything to do with.

      Then these X owners can make their own by-laws, revenue sharing, realignment, etc. with no help or input from the players. The salaries most likely wouldn’t be close to what they receive now (insert joke) because of no television contract (even if they do get one, it wouldn’t be close to the record breaking one they just signed), and all existing contracts (reebok jerseys and other merchandise). Then on top of that you have sponsorship deal, lease agreements (think an NHL owner would let a start up league in their building if they have such say, I’m guessing most do), food/beverage contracts, not to mention local radio and tv deals. Then you get into the entry draft where the NHL can file a law suit over the legality of it with their anti-trust they have.

      Then if you don’t have comparable salaries, you will see a mass exit to the KHL, Finland, Sweden, Germany, and Switzerland. All of those would be able to pay more, and most like your European super stars would just stay there.

      You’d be looking at a league that would be like an AHL team (and young players like Hall, Granlund, Justin Schultz, etc. on its upside and the worse teams looking like a division 2 college hockey team. Nobody watches the NHL now on TV, who’d watch that garbage?

      • manchestermiracle - Nov 12, 2012 at 12:29 AM

        If the NHL ceased to exist then those owners couldn’t be in violation of a rule that no longer can be enforced.

        The ex-NHL owners would be free to assemble into a new league with different representation.

        The ex-NHL players would be free to form a new union with new representation.

        Both Bettman and Fehr (and their lackeys) would be unemployed. (This alone makes the fantasy attractive.)

        The Coyotes would cease to exist, since they are owned by the now-defunct NHL.

        With a clean slate and sane negotiators the new league could rather easily resolve the issues that had the old NHL hamstrung. Revenue-sharing would insure small-market teams would be able to be competitive. Teams could agree to sign players based solely on a percentage of revenue, rather than hard dollar figures. A salary cap and luxury tax would help owners to refrain from issuing contracts that threaten their team’s financial health. New TV and endorsement contracts could be signed. A plan that takes into account revenue growth and how to divvy it up could be instituted. Etc., etc., etc., blah blah blah.

        There is hardly anything that couldn’t be suggested that wouldn’t be better than the dysfunctional and moronic NHL in its current state.

        Go ahead, blast away at these suggestions and why this would never work. Even this fatuous fantasy is more entertaining than the constant non-news that is the NHL.

  16. bjbeliever - Nov 11, 2012 at 7:15 PM

    Replacement players!

  17. id4joey - Nov 11, 2012 at 7:43 PM

    Hell of a prediction airhead. So if the season starts anytime between mid dec and June, you’re right. Now that’s a he’ll of a politician moron.

    | Nov 11, 2012, 6:13 PM EST
    For the 5th time, (now everyone repeat after me) the season wil not start before mid-December, if there is a season at all. And I won’t try to include any caveats like +/- any mount of days or weeks. I have a reliable source on this.

    • mgp1219 - Nov 11, 2012 at 7:56 PM

      No douchebag,
      All I’m saying is it won’t start any time BEFORE mid-December if there is a season at all. Nowhere did I say anything about after mid-December; therefore, if the season does start before mid-December, then I will be wrong. Perhaps you need to work on your reading comprension or would you rather I simplify my comments so you can understand them?

      • id4joey - Nov 11, 2012 at 8:25 PM

        If it does start before mid december then your wrong, which means you re right if it starts after mid December. So, bimbo, tell me again what is your range. Anytime after mid December to July? Educate us a$$hole. You re so stupid j-off. Get off PHT, and go to scrap booking lingerie from the Sear’s catalogue imbecile youngster.

      • mississippimudslinger - Nov 11, 2012 at 8:28 PM

        It’s not going to start PERIOD if you cant wake the fu*k up and realize it’s OVER then you’re really more fuc*king stupid then we all already realize.

        Oh btw mgp1219, Nascar is probably even more popular in Can-Uh-Duh these days then NHL is !

      • mgp1219 - Nov 11, 2012 at 9:22 PM

        joey, joey, joey,
        You and your life partner blomfeld kept saying the season had a good chance of starting by Thsnksgiving anytime there was in inkling of positive news coming from PHT and all I was saying was that it would take until at least mid-December and not before, especially since all November games had been cancelled. The way things are going, the entire season could be cancelled. How difficult is that to understand?
        If I had to guess, I’d say you are a Vacouver fan, eh?

      • mgp1219 - Nov 11, 2012 at 9:30 PM

        mrs. sippee,
        I don’t understand how you and your wife/sister can find time to watch nascar when your so busy filming new episodes of “Honey Boo Boo”.

      • id4joey - Nov 12, 2012 at 7:31 AM

        mpg, you’re really out of your league here. I’m sure you could find a forum where you could be relevant. Try http://www.preteenchat.com/

        “your” contributions here at PHT are neither fun, interesting or informative” “your “predictable & pathetic” contributions here at PHT equate to nothing more than useless flotsam”

        id4joey a.k.a. blomfeld

      • mgp1219 - Nov 12, 2012 at 10:22 AM

        little joey,

        I no longer believe that you and blomfeld are one and the same; however, I do believe that you are his boyfriend.

      • mgp1219 - Nov 12, 2012 at 10:24 AM

        And, little joey, you neglected to mention if in fact you are a Vancouver fan, so I’d venture to guess that you are.

      • id4joey - Nov 12, 2012 at 12:29 PM

        LOL! mpg1219. You are indeed a child with a low IQ and self-esteem.

      • id4joey - Nov 12, 2012 at 12:45 PM

        you know what mpg1219, I bet most people here know where I’m from, and whether or not I’m a Vancouver fan based on my previous posts. You! Not! You are too clueless to even figure it out though it was written on PHT. Do you get how uniteligent you are?

      • mgp1219 - Nov 12, 2012 at 1:12 PM

        Is that all you’ve got little joey? Is that your “A” game? I guess you told me, eh?

      • id4joey - Nov 12, 2012 at 1:18 PM

        Ok. I’m getting the big gun now. You pushed me to the edge. Grrrrrrr! You asked for this one. My daddy is stronger than your daddy.

    • mgp1219 - Nov 12, 2012 at 1:30 PM

      About time you use your sense of humor. Truce?

      • blomfeld - Nov 12, 2012 at 2:41 PM

        Always avoid the serpent … but if you can’t, then always ensure you hold nothing back !

        Earps = Blomfeld, Id4joey, Valoisvipers, Loyalfan34yrsgokings

        Clantons & Mclaurys = Mgp1219, Tatdue, Hockeyflow, and a bunch of other creeps

  18. LoyalFan34yrsGoKings - Nov 11, 2012 at 8:53 PM

    This is hilarious I tell you. All I can say is I miss the f#**ing sport. Even though I’m still enjoying last year for reason I don’t need to explain!
    Go Kings

  19. LoyalFan34yrsGoKings - Nov 11, 2012 at 11:40 PM

    See its getting funnier each time visit!

  20. blomfeld - Nov 12, 2012 at 1:37 PM

    LET’S MAKE A DEAL !!! :)

    Friends … back on Sept 16th I postulated that a “magical” agreement would occur during the week of November 5-10 with a margin for error of “plus or minus” 3 x days. That equates to a time period extending from Nov 2 to Nov 13. And since today is only Nov 12th, I continue to have “every” confidence that my original calculations were correct ! Never forget the saying that “night is darkest just before dawn”. All it’s going to take is a simple phone call from one party to the other saying “okay man, let’s do it” and then we’ll have a season under way within a matter of days !

    Looking back now, it’s obvious that one part of Bettman’s plan all along was to kill off the first part of the schedule this year. This was evidenced by the “sudden” urge to start seriously negotiating only last week. So “mission accomplished” there. I also believe that another part of Bettman’s plan was to manufacture a new CBA which would amount to nothing short of a “diktat” from the player’s point of view. On that score I believe he’s now run into a few unexpected snags, most notably with the dogged and stubborn-minded man who is Donald Fehr ? Nonetheless, I see him prevailing on that too in the end.

    The bottom line friends is that “we are” going to have hockey this year and probably a whole lot sooner now that later ! In fact, we may even hear about something in the next 24 hours ? I can just feel it man ! :)

    • valoisvipers - Nov 12, 2012 at 2:17 PM

      Blomfeld, at the least your prediction of a deal being done in the nov 5-10 framework has produced the most serious talks of negotations so far.So friend don’t despair if they are indeed unable to meet your timeframe, afterall greed is greed and we all have our price.

  21. blomfeld - Nov 12, 2012 at 2:24 PM

    Person A: You know, you can’t really blame these pessimists for their negativity …

    Person B: and why is that friend ?

    Person A: well it’s simple really … they’re “not” fans of the LA Kings !

    Person B: ah yeah man … I almost forgot about that …

    I came here to PHT in January for one reason … and that was to speak of my vision that something very “special” was in the air this year for my beloved Los Angeles Kings. Well despite all the ridicule and scorn which I endured here at this venomous website, I remained “true” to my vision and never wavered in my conviction for even a second. And lo and behold, things turned out pretty good in the end, eh ? :)

    Now with this lockout business, it is understandable for so many of you people to be glum and negative. On the surface things don’t look promising and the “path of despair” does indeed seem to be the popular choice these days. Nevertheless, I contend that you people would be singing a very different tune right now, had you been fans of the reigning Stanley Cup Champion Los Angeles Kings ! You know, that “cool” west coast team who has a tendency to “execute” it’s opposition when the chips are on the table ! For the fact is that the Kings and we fans “never” buckle or waver in the face of adversity. No sir ! If anything, we’ll choose up the ante instead and really “give to” adversity square in the teeth ! That’s our credo and that’s why we’re the “best” team in the world today ! And that’s also why we’ll never climb aboard your “dark” train of unhappiness.

    GO KINGS GO !!! :)

    GO END OF LOCKOUT GO !!!!!!! :)

  22. blomfeld - Nov 12, 2012 at 2:50 PM

    ps: and let’s not forget about the King eh ? :)

  23. LoyalFan34yrsGoKings - Nov 13, 2012 at 6:01 PM

    It’s called GRIT,

    Go kings go

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