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Is a “radically different” proposal from the players on the way?

Oct 15, 2012, 11:45 AM EDT

Fehr and players

For all the talk the NHL and NHLPA have engaged in since the CBA expired a month ago on Sept. 15, not one side has submitted a new proposal for the other to consider.

Will this be the week we see some concrete movement on the core economic issues? The two sides are set to meet Tuesday in Toronto, so it’s possible. The “Big Four” — Gary Bettman, Bill Daly, Donald Fehr and Steve Fehr — will reportedly be in attendance.

TSN’s Darren Dreger is “hearing about a radically different” proposal that the players are working on. But how “radically different” we’re left to wonder. (Luxury tax?)

The last proposal — from the the league, on Sept. 12 — called for players to receive 49 percent of hockey-related revenue in Year 1 of the agreement, 48 percent in Year 2, and 47 percent in the remaining four years.

The players, having just earned 57 percent of the revenue under the last CBA, were predictably unimpressed. In fact, any scenario that results in less money going to the players in Year 1 of the agreement, they’ve said they won’t accept.

Thus the main sticking point of the disagreement, since the owners want an immediate reduction in said money.

  1. redwingsfan999 - Oct 15, 2012 at 12:00 PM

    Just make a deal how hard can it be, they all make more than the average American anyway

  2. bcsteele - Oct 15, 2012 at 12:23 PM

    Like many fans, until I see a deal done…I could really care less.

    I will say this much: I do feel like both sides realize they are losing the PR battle now because the fans are really just pissed that we’re not playing hockey. Which really, instead of making money the issue it always seems to be, is what the players and owners need to focus on. At the end of the day you can preach to “we the fans” all day about how your right and it will work for as long as there’s hockey happening. Seeing as there’s no hockey we really don’t care and you should get over yourselves and get this deal done.

    Afterall, I feel I should have a say (even though we clearly don’t) in your new CBA considering the money involved…IS WHAT I SPEND ON IT.

    • lostpuppysyndrome - Oct 15, 2012 at 1:39 PM

      It’s not just fans; local business owners are getting hit too. Wonder if that’s being taken into consideration at all.

  3. jimw81 - Oct 15, 2012 at 12:29 PM

    How radically different can PA proposal be? i still dont see players giving up 17% of HRR. unless they are willing to go down btw 54-50%.

    • hockeydon10 - Oct 16, 2012 at 10:49 AM

      The current PA offer has them starting at 54.3%, then going down from there. I’d be willing to bet they could be swayed to start at 54%, then reduce by 1% each year until 50/50.

      That doesn’t sound unreasonable to me.

  4. ucaneverscorenoughgoals - Oct 15, 2012 at 12:40 PM

    The ranger’s, wings, maple leafs, canadians, blackhawks and even the flyers will spend an extra 15 million dollars to go over the cap by 3 million. If they make it to the second round of the playoffs they will recoup all of that 15 million in two home playoff games.

    Those teams will laugh at a luxury tax.

    Furthermore revenue sharing did nothing to encourage the my own Pittsburgh Pirates to spend more on their payroll. They are still only spending around 50 million so the owners make sure they make a profit. The money they recieved from revenue sharing has simply been used to pay their bills and some has gone into their minor league system. While the money invested in the minor league is a “feel good” investment, their farm system is still second tier and it has been 20 years of below .500 baseball.

    So I think Fehr’s view of the world is a crock of $%!#.

    That being said. 49%, 48% an 47% is ridiculous. If the NHL is able to come close to 50/50 split and eliminate cap circumenting deals. The league is better off.

    • jimw81 - Oct 15, 2012 at 12:45 PM

      look at mlb’s big spenders, how did they do in the playoffs? that’s right, besides yankees, no one made the playoffs.

      • ucaneverscorenoughgoals - Oct 15, 2012 at 12:48 PM

        I’ll qoute another poster named greatminnesotasports mind and repost his post from another article to refute that statement.

        “Is it just me or is the Yankees the top payroll in baseball. They are in the ALCS against the Tigers who have the 5th largest payroll. Both teams beat teams with small payrolls.”

        “Giants are in the NLCS with the 8th highest payroll against the Cardinals with the 9th highest payroll. The Rangers also made the playoffs with the 6th highest payroll. 5 of the 10 teams in the post season have the top 10 payrolls.”

        “Meanwhile the lowest 10 payrolls were: Indians, Rockies, Blue Jays, Diamondbacks, Rays, Pirates, Royals, Astros, A’s, and Padres. Only the A’s made the playoffs. 8 of the were .500 or worse, and of those 7 had 89 losses or more.”

        “That is why you need a salary cap my friends and baseball is the worse example of all sports.”

      • Jason Brough - Oct 15, 2012 at 1:36 PM

        The Tigers, Giants and Cardinals each spent over $100 million this year.

    • footballfan - Oct 15, 2012 at 3:42 PM

      I agree that revenue spending will not make owners try to be competitive. Usually it is the opposite. They will still make money no matter what so why waste the cash on a huge payroll!

      I’m not quite sure how you think that the Pirates farm system is below .500. The Indianapolis Indians won their division this year. Actually usually do way better than the big team.

      • ucaneverscorenoughgoals - Oct 15, 2012 at 5:09 PM

        Does it really take a lot to do wayyy better than the big team?….really?!….c’mon…really?!…lol

  5. bcjim - Oct 15, 2012 at 12:42 PM

    “…any scenario that results in less money going to the players in Year 1 of the agreement, they’ve said they won’t accept.”

    Then they’ll get their 57%. Of course 57% of zero$ is, uh, zero.

    Its too bad most hockey players are uneducated boobs. Surely the few that (A) went to college and (B) paid attention, can stand up and point out the idiocy of the payers current strategy.

    • bcjim - Oct 15, 2012 at 1:44 PM

      Who is thumb downing me and why?

      • bcjim - Oct 16, 2012 at 7:35 AM

        People don’t like to hear the truth I guess.

  6. aventador12 - Oct 15, 2012 at 1:05 PM

    At this point, it’s pretty much all talk. Both sides already, from the beginning, ignored a huge, if not the biggest factor regarding $$$…….and that is the fans themselves. I know it probably does not matter a lot for them, but in reality, it does. I won’t be surprised if they won’t come-up with a deal on a fair agreement.

  7. wingz101 - Oct 15, 2012 at 1:07 PM

    I love hockey as much as the next guy. But honestly, i didn’t miss the NHL all that much the last time it went on strike. Sure this period in time where NHL types fight over cash is annoying and you wanna choke the people involved, but at the end of the day it is really just ‘televised’ entertainment. If it’s not there, you watch something else. Or like most other hockey lovers, you can just go out and play it or something else.

    If you can’t go to an NHL game, maybe you can go to an AHL or OHL game. If not, spend the same money on some show at the threatre or see a few more concerts. By an ATV or skidoo with the season ticket money. It really is no big deal and if more fans dropped the hysteria, the NHL would come back much, much faster.

    I actually hope they cancel most of the season. I hope it kills about 4-6 teams. I miss the NHL with 21-24 teams. They just isn’t enough offensive talent to share among 30 squads. In the end I think that is what will happen. Especially in places like Phoenix, Florida, Carolina and Nashville. Places where the fans don’t really have a sentimental attachment to it.

    We’ll see, but it really is not the end of the world.

    • islesjb - Oct 15, 2012 at 2:17 PM

      I don’t understand your logic behind, “if more fans dropped the hysteria, the NHL would come back much much faster.”

      I think the most frustrating part about this whole mess is that regardless of how we feel as fans or how we react, nothing we do will influence negotiations one way or the other. We just have to sit back, be pissed off and wait while the NHL and the NHLPA squabble over money.

      If people stop being pissed off and “drop the hysteria” I don’t see Bettman and Fehr going, “well no one cares about the lock out any more so we better get a deal done ASAP.” That makes no sense.

    • beachrover - Oct 15, 2012 at 4:25 PM

      Have to disagree, I’m a Hurricanes fan and have a very sentimental attachment to the team. I have spent considerable sums of money supporting the team. I’m not foolish enough to believe that we have the fan base that a Pittsburgh or Montreal has but at the same time, we’ve only had the team for 15 years. We haven’t had enough time to develop “legacy” fans like the older clubs. My oldest daughter was only 6 years old when I took her to her first game. Now, as a 21 year old graduating from college (hopefully) this year, she talks about getting a job that pays enough so she can buy her own season tickets. I believe that in the next 5 years, there will be a big change in the fan base here in the Carolinas.

    • manchestermiracle - Oct 15, 2012 at 9:09 PM

      wingz has got a good point. One reason the NHL has taken this path is directly tied to the results of the last lockout: When it was over, fans flocked back. The NHL is banking on that happening again. Why in the world would you want to reward them (again) for their obvious disrespect? The guy with the cocaine takes his time answering your call because he knows you’re addicted to his product and that you willingly overpay for it. Take a step back and re-evaluate your priorities. In the long run you will be doing yourself, and the NHL, a favor.

    • deathbyspl - Oct 16, 2012 at 10:52 AM

      Obviously, you don’t spend much time in Nashville. There has been a hockey history there since the 60’s. When Craig Leipold. threatened to fold the team up and move it to Canada, the fans, local businesses, the mayor, and the governor got behind saving the Predators and keeping them in Nashville. Now it’s locally owned and never had to go under the NHL’s wing like Phoenix and Atlanta. If you want to get rid of teams, start with Phoenix and the Islanders. Get rid of teams with bad business models.

  8. boldplan - Oct 16, 2012 at 11:12 AM

    It’s pretty simple, really. This is what happens when government allows sports monopolies to occur. The players have a limited career and have zero leverage. The owners may lose money but, in the long run, still have a monopoly and believe that will need just a little effort to kickstart again their growing $3.3 billion professional sports monopoly. This will end with the players accepting close to whatever the ownership wants, who don’t appear to be too desperate to start the season. But what is never factored into the equation is the fans and the public who frequently provide subsidies to both of these sparring parties. If our politicians started to threaten to not provide the sweeteners they do, a deal would get done.

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