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	<title>Comments on: Are ultra long-term contracts a blessing or curse for the teams that issue them?</title>
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	<link>http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2012/07/15/are-ultra-long-term-contracts-a-blessing-or-curse-for-the-teams-that-issue-them/</link>
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		<title>By: biasedhomer</title>
		<link>http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2012/07/15/are-ultra-long-term-contracts-a-blessing-or-curse-for-the-teams-that-issue-them/comment-page-1/#comment-90176</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[biasedhomer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jul 2012 17:31:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=822414#comment-90176</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well, for starters, MLB has no cap, so for a team like the Yankees, it won&#039;t screw them up too much. 

Secondly, in the NFL, those contracts are not fully guaranteed. Vick can be cut after this season I believe, and the Eagles will not have to pay him a dime. And Vick and Romo or both not even close to 10+ years. 

The best comparison for salaries of players would be in the NBA, which you oddly left out. How often does a player sign a 10+ year contract?   The longest was I think Magic and his 25 year contract. I can&#039;t recall any other 10+ year contracts. Even Miamis Lebron, Wade, and Bosh didn&#039;t get 10 years (even though they did get $100M). And personally, I&#039;d rather have a player on my team making $100M over 5 years, rather than $100M over 10+ years.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, for starters, MLB has no cap, so for a team like the Yankees, it won&#8217;t screw them up too much. </p>
<p>Secondly, in the NFL, those contracts are not fully guaranteed. Vick can be cut after this season I believe, and the Eagles will not have to pay him a dime. And Vick and Romo or both not even close to 10+ years. </p>
<p>The best comparison for salaries of players would be in the NBA, which you oddly left out. How often does a player sign a 10+ year contract?   The longest was I think Magic and his 25 year contract. I can&#8217;t recall any other 10+ year contracts. Even Miamis Lebron, Wade, and Bosh didn&#8217;t get 10 years (even though they did get $100M). And personally, I&#8217;d rather have a player on my team making $100M over 5 years, rather than $100M over 10+ years.</p>
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		<title>By: polegojim</title>
		<link>http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2012/07/15/are-ultra-long-term-contracts-a-blessing-or-curse-for-the-teams-that-issue-them/comment-page-1/#comment-90025</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[polegojim]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jul 2012 23:29:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=822414#comment-90025</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Flip sports and have some more fun:

MLB:
Puljols
Rodriguez - Mr. Absent in October

NFL:
Vick
Romo]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Flip sports and have some more fun:</p>
<p>MLB:<br />
Puljols<br />
Rodriguez &#8211; Mr. Absent in October</p>
<p>NFL:<br />
Vick<br />
Romo</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: polegojim</title>
		<link>http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2012/07/15/are-ultra-long-term-contracts-a-blessing-or-curse-for-the-teams-that-issue-them/comment-page-1/#comment-90019</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[polegojim]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jul 2012 23:22:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=822414#comment-90019</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@williplet - I bet you would!  You must work for the government,eh?   

That thinking is exactly what gets you what you have today!  Spiraling cost and inflated pricing at every level imaginable, plus failing return on investment -see every league I mentioned, including PBT discussions right now.

Communism?  Last time I checked, Corporations... you know, the &#039;capitalist&#039; kind... run their businesses on &#039;pay scales&#039; and &#039;target bonuses&#039;.  

I never said &#039;pay everyone the same&#039;.  It&#039;s not too hard a concept... let me help you:

What happens to good players on bad teams or bad players on good teams? 
See #3 - in case you didn&#039;t read.  You can EASILY stack individual success bonuses to make up for a good player on a bad team, but he still has to perform at a personally HIGH level to get it.

What happens to an elite player injured by a bad player who has even greater incentive to injure talented players now that injured players only get scale? 
Ok - then negotiate an &#039;injury without opportunity&#039; clause that pays at 50% targets, with $ dock to a penaltized player.  If a guys risks 10-25% of his pay, including bonus&#039;, for intentional injury - that&#039;s a deterent.

Who is given the all seeing right to dictate who has “mailed it in”? 
HELLO - let&#039;s try this again - it&#039;s not dictating... It&#039;s called &#039;P-E-R-F-O-R-M-A-N-C-E&#039;, you know - that results the player achieves on ice.  They ALREADY negotiate bonuses on this stuff.  It&#039;s not new.   Plus/Minus, Points, SOG, Goals, Assists, Save%, etc. checkout NHL.com... they&#039;re pretty smart people and already track ALL ot those things.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@williplet &#8211; I bet you would!  You must work for the government,eh?   </p>
<p>That thinking is exactly what gets you what you have today!  Spiraling cost and inflated pricing at every level imaginable, plus failing return on investment -see every league I mentioned, including PBT discussions right now.</p>
<p>Communism?  Last time I checked, Corporations&#8230; you know, the &#8216;capitalist&#8217; kind&#8230; run their businesses on &#8216;pay scales&#8217; and &#8216;target bonuses&#8217;.  </p>
<p>I never said &#8216;pay everyone the same&#8217;.  It&#8217;s not too hard a concept&#8230; let me help you:</p>
<p>What happens to good players on bad teams or bad players on good teams?<br />
See #3 &#8211; in case you didn&#8217;t read.  You can EASILY stack individual success bonuses to make up for a good player on a bad team, but he still has to perform at a personally HIGH level to get it.</p>
<p>What happens to an elite player injured by a bad player who has even greater incentive to injure talented players now that injured players only get scale?<br />
Ok &#8211; then negotiate an &#8216;injury without opportunity&#8217; clause that pays at 50% targets, with $ dock to a penaltized player.  If a guys risks 10-25% of his pay, including bonus&#8217;, for intentional injury &#8211; that&#8217;s a deterent.</p>
<p>Who is given the all seeing right to dictate who has “mailed it in”?<br />
HELLO &#8211; let&#8217;s try this again &#8211; it&#8217;s not dictating&#8230; It&#8217;s called &#8216;P-E-R-F-O-R-M-A-N-C-E&#8217;, you know &#8211; that results the player achieves on ice.  They ALREADY negotiate bonuses on this stuff.  It&#8217;s not new.   Plus/Minus, Points, SOG, Goals, Assists, Save%, etc. checkout NHL.com&#8230; they&#8217;re pretty smart people and already track ALL ot those things.</p>
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		<title>By: williplett</title>
		<link>http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2012/07/15/are-ultra-long-term-contracts-a-blessing-or-curse-for-the-teams-that-issue-them/comment-page-1/#comment-89871</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[williplett]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jul 2012 17:00:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=822414#comment-89871</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sorry, but this looks more like an insanely rigid-and even more random-way of paying Rollerball players under a communist regime than any sort of capitalistic system where NHL players negotiate a fair share of a very lucrative pie.  What happens to good players on bad teams or bad players on good teams?  What happens to an elite player injured by a bad player who has even greater incentive to injure talented players now that injured players only get scale?  Who is given the all seeing right to dictate who has &quot;mailed it in&quot;?  

No thanks, personally, and I kinda get why the multi-billion dollar professional sport leagues in this country don&#039;t get it either.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, but this looks more like an insanely rigid-and even more random-way of paying Rollerball players under a communist regime than any sort of capitalistic system where NHL players negotiate a fair share of a very lucrative pie.  What happens to good players on bad teams or bad players on good teams?  What happens to an elite player injured by a bad player who has even greater incentive to injure talented players now that injured players only get scale?  Who is given the all seeing right to dictate who has &#8220;mailed it in&#8221;?  </p>
<p>No thanks, personally, and I kinda get why the multi-billion dollar professional sport leagues in this country don&#8217;t get it either.</p>
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		<title>By: jrsaffell</title>
		<link>http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2012/07/15/are-ultra-long-term-contracts-a-blessing-or-curse-for-the-teams-that-issue-them/comment-page-1/#comment-89831</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jrsaffell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jul 2012 15:51:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=822414#comment-89831</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[People want guarantees, but it would be refreshing if contracts were paid on a performance basis.

How bout 100k per point? Doesn&#039;t that sound ridiculous when you put it that way? Plenty of guys are getting way more than that though.

I could use 100k and I&#039;m sure that over 82 games even I could get an assist or two. I&#039;d be fine with that money.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>People want guarantees, but it would be refreshing if contracts were paid on a performance basis.</p>
<p>How bout 100k per point? Doesn&#8217;t that sound ridiculous when you put it that way? Plenty of guys are getting way more than that though.</p>
<p>I could use 100k and I&#8217;m sure that over 82 games even I could get an assist or two. I&#8217;d be fine with that money.</p>
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		<title>By: jrsaffell</title>
		<link>http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2012/07/15/are-ultra-long-term-contracts-a-blessing-or-curse-for-the-teams-that-issue-them/comment-page-1/#comment-89827</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jrsaffell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jul 2012 15:44:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=822414#comment-89827</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Using Ovi as an example was stupid. The guy can be on a nothing line in a system that goes against his play style and still put in almost 40 goals. He&#039;s worth more than Crosby imo and he isn&#039;t one nudge to the head away from ending his career.

DiPietro&#039;s cap hit isn&#039;t crippling though. And as you said, the guy was never that good. The Isles are crap because they have crap ownership and management. NYI could work around him if the wanted, it&#039;s not like if Pitt loses Sid again and possibly forever and get stuck with that mega-contract.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Using Ovi as an example was stupid. The guy can be on a nothing line in a system that goes against his play style and still put in almost 40 goals. He&#8217;s worth more than Crosby imo and he isn&#8217;t one nudge to the head away from ending his career.</p>
<p>DiPietro&#8217;s cap hit isn&#8217;t crippling though. And as you said, the guy was never that good. The Isles are crap because they have crap ownership and management. NYI could work around him if the wanted, it&#8217;s not like if Pitt loses Sid again and possibly forever and get stuck with that mega-contract.</p>
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		<title>By: polegojim</title>
		<link>http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2012/07/15/are-ultra-long-term-contracts-a-blessing-or-curse-for-the-teams-that-issue-them/comment-page-1/#comment-89801</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[polegojim]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jul 2012 14:30:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=822414#comment-89801</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Long term contracts = guaranteed flatline/lag period for player performance.  

I&#039;m a proponent of &#039;pay for current performance&#039; at every level of professional sports.  

Annual base contract with built in incentives for success.  
1) You mail it in - enjoy the base
2) You get injured - enjoy the base and free health care, hope your team does well. 
3) Individual success/stats - enjoy some $
4) Team success - progressive incentive per level of playoffs reached - enjoy even more $$
5) Team Wins Stanley Cup - enjoy the MOST $$$

In a capitalistic society, people will perform at a higher level when there is perennial &#039;URGENCY&#039; - Anticipation of gain/fear of loss and less comfort.  

You want the best every year?  Nobody relaxes - Keep the HEAT ON.

Seriously, how do the NHL, NFL, MLB, and NBA NOT get that?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Long term contracts = guaranteed flatline/lag period for player performance.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m a proponent of &#8216;pay for current performance&#8217; at every level of professional sports.  </p>
<p>Annual base contract with built in incentives for success.<br />
1) You mail it in &#8211; enjoy the base<br />
2) You get injured &#8211; enjoy the base and free health care, hope your team does well.<br />
3) Individual success/stats &#8211; enjoy some $<br />
4) Team success &#8211; progressive incentive per level of playoffs reached &#8211; enjoy even more $$<br />
5) Team Wins Stanley Cup &#8211; enjoy the MOST $$$</p>
<p>In a capitalistic society, people will perform at a higher level when there is perennial &#8216;URGENCY&#8217; &#8211; Anticipation of gain/fear of loss and less comfort.  </p>
<p>You want the best every year?  Nobody relaxes &#8211; Keep the HEAT ON.</p>
<p>Seriously, how do the NHL, NFL, MLB, and NBA NOT get that?</p>
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		<title>By: ray2013</title>
		<link>http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2012/07/15/are-ultra-long-term-contracts-a-blessing-or-curse-for-the-teams-that-issue-them/comment-page-1/#comment-89770</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ray2013]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jul 2012 08:00:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=822414#comment-89770</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think focusing only on the player&#039;s contract is misleading in terms of evaluating the impact of these contracts. Look at the Wild with their two major signings. In the middle of the summer they were able to sell thousands of season tickets in addition to their existing season ticket holder base. I don&#039;t know the exact number, but I&#039;m sure they also sold thousands of ZP and Suter jerseys, and those official jerseys aren&#039;t cheap. Signing elite players to these types of contracts raises the excitement level of the local market, who buy season tickets and luxury boxes, and who pay to watch their teams. 

I know as an Albertan, that many people here will be supremely outraged, if the Oilers don&#039;t sign Hall, Eberle, Nuge and Yakupov to long-term contracts so that they can play the majority of their career as Oilers. You have talent, you don&#039;t want to lose it. Nobody here wants to watch anyone of them pull a Suter/ZP and walk away from Edmonton with nothing in return.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think focusing only on the player&#8217;s contract is misleading in terms of evaluating the impact of these contracts. Look at the Wild with their two major signings. In the middle of the summer they were able to sell thousands of season tickets in addition to their existing season ticket holder base. I don&#8217;t know the exact number, but I&#8217;m sure they also sold thousands of ZP and Suter jerseys, and those official jerseys aren&#8217;t cheap. Signing elite players to these types of contracts raises the excitement level of the local market, who buy season tickets and luxury boxes, and who pay to watch their teams. </p>
<p>I know as an Albertan, that many people here will be supremely outraged, if the Oilers don&#8217;t sign Hall, Eberle, Nuge and Yakupov to long-term contracts so that they can play the majority of their career as Oilers. You have talent, you don&#8217;t want to lose it. Nobody here wants to watch anyone of them pull a Suter/ZP and walk away from Edmonton with nothing in return.</p>
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		<title>By: stakex</title>
		<link>http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2012/07/15/are-ultra-long-term-contracts-a-blessing-or-curse-for-the-teams-that-issue-them/comment-page-1/#comment-89740</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[stakex]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jul 2012 01:45:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=822414#comment-89740</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Its hard to judge these deals till they are over. 

Take Ovechkin for example. Some will point to last season and say &quot;See, Washington shouldn&#039;t have given him that big contract with the big cap hit&quot;. Yet it was just one year, and the guy still scored 38 goals in a &quot;horrible season&quot;. If he was an UFA this summer, he would still be offered just as big of a contract by pretty much every team in the NHL. Now if his production continues to fall till the end of his deal, THEN you can turn around and trash talk it. 

The only deal on this list that you can say right now was down right bad, is Rick DiPietro. He was never really good enough to warrent the contract the Islanders gave him. All the other guys on this list were worth the risk based on their ability.... DiPietro wasn&#039;t. Throw in a rapid decline in his ability, and a mountain of injuries and his contract looks REALLY bad.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Its hard to judge these deals till they are over. </p>
<p>Take Ovechkin for example. Some will point to last season and say &#8220;See, Washington shouldn&#8217;t have given him that big contract with the big cap hit&#8221;. Yet it was just one year, and the guy still scored 38 goals in a &#8220;horrible season&#8221;. If he was an UFA this summer, he would still be offered just as big of a contract by pretty much every team in the NHL. Now if his production continues to fall till the end of his deal, THEN you can turn around and trash talk it. </p>
<p>The only deal on this list that you can say right now was down right bad, is Rick DiPietro. He was never really good enough to warrent the contract the Islanders gave him. All the other guys on this list were worth the risk based on their ability&#8230;. DiPietro wasn&#8217;t. Throw in a rapid decline in his ability, and a mountain of injuries and his contract looks REALLY bad.</p>
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		<title>By: biasedhomer</title>
		<link>http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2012/07/15/are-ultra-long-term-contracts-a-blessing-or-curse-for-the-teams-that-issue-them/comment-page-1/#comment-89718</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[biasedhomer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jul 2012 23:53:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=822414#comment-89718</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Add to the List

Keith
Lungo
Quick
Carter
Franzen
Kovy
Suter
Parise]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Add to the List</p>
<p>Keith<br />
Lungo<br />
Quick<br />
Carter<br />
Franzen<br />
Kovy<br />
Suter<br />
Parise</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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