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	<title>Comments on: Tackling how the US debt debacle might affect the NHL</title>
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	<link>http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/06/tackling-how-the-us-debt-debacle-might-affect-the-nhl/</link>
	<description>ProHockeyTalk on NBCSports.com</description>
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		<title>By: 1943mrmojorisin1971</title>
		<link>http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/06/tackling-how-the-us-debt-debacle-might-affect-the-nhl/comment-page-1/#comment-14922</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[1943mrmojorisin1971]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Aug 2011 15:42:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=44786#comment-14922</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[And here&#039;s a &quot;fact check&quot; for yourself to consider: the only economic crisis comparable to this is the Great Depression. During the &#039;30s the countries that cut spending in pursuit of the balanced-budget quick fix saw their economies suffer a longer and deeper recession. It took increased production as the result of global war to fix these economies. Coveresely, facist countries returned their economies to pre-Depression production levels before any liberal countries by exerting total control. Obviously the US will not assume complete control of its economy but the solutions they are pursuing now are proven failures]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And here&#8217;s a &#8220;fact check&#8221; for yourself to consider: the only economic crisis comparable to this is the Great Depression. During the &#8217;30s the countries that cut spending in pursuit of the balanced-budget quick fix saw their economies suffer a longer and deeper recession. It took increased production as the result of global war to fix these economies. Coveresely, facist countries returned their economies to pre-Depression production levels before any liberal countries by exerting total control. Obviously the US will not assume complete control of its economy but the solutions they are pursuing now are proven failures</p>
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		<title>By: 1943mrmojorisin1971</title>
		<link>http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/06/tackling-how-the-us-debt-debacle-might-affect-the-nhl/comment-page-1/#comment-14921</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[1943mrmojorisin1971]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Aug 2011 15:27:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=44786#comment-14921</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ah I get it, my argument isn&#039;t in line with your views so it&#039;s incoherent. The very nature of an argument is that there are differences of opinions. The control the government has taken over the economy was essentially putting some companies on life support until they were able to offer an IPO. That&#039;s simply not enough. To fix this mess the government needs to have more control, but of course most Americans consider that communism which is why I use the word drastic (drastic from your perspective, not mine, us socialist-communists here in Canada don&#039;t view such a move as drastic when it&#039;s so neccessary)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah I get it, my argument isn&#8217;t in line with your views so it&#8217;s incoherent. The very nature of an argument is that there are differences of opinions. The control the government has taken over the economy was essentially putting some companies on life support until they were able to offer an IPO. That&#8217;s simply not enough. To fix this mess the government needs to have more control, but of course most Americans consider that communism which is why I use the word drastic (drastic from your perspective, not mine, us socialist-communists here in Canada don&#8217;t view such a move as drastic when it&#8217;s so neccessary)</p>
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		<title>By: nhlbruins90</title>
		<link>http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/06/tackling-how-the-us-debt-debacle-might-affect-the-nhl/comment-page-1/#comment-14917</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[nhlbruins90]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Aug 2011 12:37:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=44786#comment-14917</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If I can rip off a &#039;book&#039; on the debt crisis in 3 minutes, why would you care?  I hope it didn&#039;t take you more than 30 seconds to write that incoherent ramble. 

Logic check - something can be drastic and simple. Drastic does not imply complex. The thrust of your argument is that government will have to exert more control over the economy to fix it. Fact check - since this crisis heated up in 2008, the government has drastically increased its control over the economy. Results not so good. Like I said, the quality of the &#039;arguments&#039; will vary.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If I can rip off a &#8216;book&#8217; on the debt crisis in 3 minutes, why would you care?  I hope it didn&#8217;t take you more than 30 seconds to write that incoherent ramble. </p>
<p>Logic check &#8211; something can be drastic and simple. Drastic does not imply complex. The thrust of your argument is that government will have to exert more control over the economy to fix it. Fact check &#8211; since this crisis heated up in 2008, the government has drastically increased its control over the economy. Results not so good. Like I said, the quality of the &#8216;arguments&#8217; will vary.</p>
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		<title>By: 1943mrmojorisin1971</title>
		<link>http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/06/tackling-how-the-us-debt-debacle-might-affect-the-nhl/comment-page-1/#comment-14905</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[1943mrmojorisin1971]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Aug 2011 01:51:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=44786#comment-14905</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Exactly, it&#039;s about how the situation affects the NHL, not how the situation should be resolved. And it&#039;s obviously a fairly complex issue based on that book you just wrote about solutions. But if you insist, the debt the US has accumulated is unprecedented so it&#039;s unlikely it will take a conventional solution such as spending cuts or increases or whatever you think will help to fix it. Based on history things look incredibly grim for the US. The only similar situation that comes to mind is Germany in the 1930s when their inability to pay reparations led to hyperinflation, ultimately leading to a total economic collapse that was only righted by fascism. Basically the government will have to take control of the economy to a certain degree if there&#039;s going to be any kind of recovery but that&#039;s highly unlikely given the immense opposition to &quot;socialism&quot;. I really don&#039;t know what you guys are going to do but it certainly won&#039;t be an easy or simple solution, it will have to be drastic]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Exactly, it&#8217;s about how the situation affects the NHL, not how the situation should be resolved. And it&#8217;s obviously a fairly complex issue based on that book you just wrote about solutions. But if you insist, the debt the US has accumulated is unprecedented so it&#8217;s unlikely it will take a conventional solution such as spending cuts or increases or whatever you think will help to fix it. Based on history things look incredibly grim for the US. The only similar situation that comes to mind is Germany in the 1930s when their inability to pay reparations led to hyperinflation, ultimately leading to a total economic collapse that was only righted by fascism. Basically the government will have to take control of the economy to a certain degree if there&#8217;s going to be any kind of recovery but that&#8217;s highly unlikely given the immense opposition to &#8220;socialism&#8221;. I really don&#8217;t know what you guys are going to do but it certainly won&#8217;t be an easy or simple solution, it will have to be drastic</p>
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		<title>By: nhlbruins90</title>
		<link>http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/06/tackling-how-the-us-debt-debacle-might-affect-the-nhl/comment-page-1/#comment-14903</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[nhlbruins90]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Aug 2011 01:13:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=44786#comment-14903</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Actually, this topic is explicitly about how the staggering US debt will affect the NHL, particularly its marginal teams. So, naturally, the messages here will be economic arguments of varying quality. And no, it&#039;s not really that complex.

Beyond that obvious point ... it&#039;s August! Also known as the doldrums of the hockey year. The folks who run this site are obviously sprinkling in a few posts that wouldn&#039;t show up in November. No harm there.

And finally, you&#039;re apparently Canadian, so just relax. No matter how this debacle plays out, Canadian hockey fans come out the winners. There&#039;s nothing Gary Bettman can do about the exchange rate. Now go crack open another Molson, eh.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, this topic is explicitly about how the staggering US debt will affect the NHL, particularly its marginal teams. So, naturally, the messages here will be economic arguments of varying quality. And no, it&#8217;s not really that complex.</p>
<p>Beyond that obvious point &#8230; it&#8217;s August! Also known as the doldrums of the hockey year. The folks who run this site are obviously sprinkling in a few posts that wouldn&#8217;t show up in November. No harm there.</p>
<p>And finally, you&#8217;re apparently Canadian, so just relax. No matter how this debacle plays out, Canadian hockey fans come out the winners. There&#8217;s nothing Gary Bettman can do about the exchange rate. Now go crack open another Molson, eh.</p>
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		<title>By: 1943mrmojorisin1971</title>
		<link>http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/06/tackling-how-the-us-debt-debacle-might-affect-the-nhl/comment-page-1/#comment-14895</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[1943mrmojorisin1971]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Aug 2011 21:52:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=44786#comment-14895</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s a hockey forum guys, your economy is in disarray and the entire situation is too complex to discuss here so leave it at that. The only way this debt debacle will affect the NHL is that small market teams will lose even more money and Gary Bettman will look even more incompetent as he keeps them on league life support til the bitter end]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s a hockey forum guys, your economy is in disarray and the entire situation is too complex to discuss here so leave it at that. The only way this debt debacle will affect the NHL is that small market teams will lose even more money and Gary Bettman will look even more incompetent as he keeps them on league life support til the bitter end</p>
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		<title>By: nhlbruins90</title>
		<link>http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/06/tackling-how-the-us-debt-debacle-might-affect-the-nhl/comment-page-1/#comment-14889</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[nhlbruins90]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Aug 2011 19:27:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=44786#comment-14889</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well, have you been to the market lately? Everything is smaller but costs more. Have you filled up your gas tank lately? Prices are up and it ain&#039;t because supply is drastically down. To the extent that inflation is contained, it&#039;s because consumer demand is down, and the housing market has suffered a drastic spell of deflation. 

I understand the theory, but at the end of the day, if you double the money supply your money is worth half as much. In real science, there&#039;s a fundamental law - matter can neither be created nor destroyed, only transformed. In economics, perhaps we should operate on the notion that wealth cannot be created on a printing press. 

We spent a trillion of borrowed (or printed) &#039;stimulus&#039; dollars to goose the economy along, and how&#039;s that working out? The big banks are fat and happy, the Federal workforce has ballooned (that&#039;s productive, right?) and every company with a lobbyist in DC was able to scam a billion here and a billion there. If you&#039;re on the receiving end of those dollars, it&#039;s great. For the country as a whole, we&#039;re only deeper in debt. 

And now the temporary (unproductive) stimulus is over and we&#039;re waking up to reality. The government has a bigger chunk of GDP, unemployment is still above 9%, companies are more dependent on Washington (rather than consumers) than ever before, the USA is less competitive in the world, and economic growth has practically stalled. We&#039;re only deeper in debt. 

Tax revenues will be down as the economy slows, borrowing costs go up with a lower credit rating,  and the debt burden gets even heavier. So what&#039;s the solution? Print some more, kick the can down the road again and don&#039;t address the fundamental problems. This isn&#039;t a cyclical recession caused by the normal business cycle. This is a fundamental decline in the American economy. 

At this point, the only way the debt will be paid is to monetize it. I understand why many people have no fear of this. People who are smart and have the means can make a fortune. The run-up in the stock market goosed along by the Fed and QE2 was great for the big players. For people trying to find work, not so much. QE3 will make the same people happy, which is why they&#039;re calling for it. The results will be the same though.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, have you been to the market lately? Everything is smaller but costs more. Have you filled up your gas tank lately? Prices are up and it ain&#8217;t because supply is drastically down. To the extent that inflation is contained, it&#8217;s because consumer demand is down, and the housing market has suffered a drastic spell of deflation. </p>
<p>I understand the theory, but at the end of the day, if you double the money supply your money is worth half as much. In real science, there&#8217;s a fundamental law &#8211; matter can neither be created nor destroyed, only transformed. In economics, perhaps we should operate on the notion that wealth cannot be created on a printing press. </p>
<p>We spent a trillion of borrowed (or printed) &#8216;stimulus&#8217; dollars to goose the economy along, and how&#8217;s that working out? The big banks are fat and happy, the Federal workforce has ballooned (that&#8217;s productive, right?) and every company with a lobbyist in DC was able to scam a billion here and a billion there. If you&#8217;re on the receiving end of those dollars, it&#8217;s great. For the country as a whole, we&#8217;re only deeper in debt. </p>
<p>And now the temporary (unproductive) stimulus is over and we&#8217;re waking up to reality. The government has a bigger chunk of GDP, unemployment is still above 9%, companies are more dependent on Washington (rather than consumers) than ever before, the USA is less competitive in the world, and economic growth has practically stalled. We&#8217;re only deeper in debt. </p>
<p>Tax revenues will be down as the economy slows, borrowing costs go up with a lower credit rating,  and the debt burden gets even heavier. So what&#8217;s the solution? Print some more, kick the can down the road again and don&#8217;t address the fundamental problems. This isn&#8217;t a cyclical recession caused by the normal business cycle. This is a fundamental decline in the American economy. </p>
<p>At this point, the only way the debt will be paid is to monetize it. I understand why many people have no fear of this. People who are smart and have the means can make a fortune. The run-up in the stock market goosed along by the Fed and QE2 was great for the big players. For people trying to find work, not so much. QE3 will make the same people happy, which is why they&#8217;re calling for it. The results will be the same though.</p>
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		<title>By: obsolete777</title>
		<link>http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/06/tackling-how-the-us-debt-debacle-might-affect-the-nhl/comment-page-1/#comment-14888</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[obsolete777]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Aug 2011 18:16:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=44786#comment-14888</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[nhlbruins90,
Inflation has been kept under control, partially by the Fed and the very, very low interest rates. By making drastic spending cuts in a recession, more harm to the economy and recovery occurs than would happen from the modest inflation that would actually happen.
Fears of runaway inflation are mostly a tea party scare tactic.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>nhlbruins90,<br />
Inflation has been kept under control, partially by the Fed and the very, very low interest rates. By making drastic spending cuts in a recession, more harm to the economy and recovery occurs than would happen from the modest inflation that would actually happen.<br />
Fears of runaway inflation are mostly a tea party scare tactic.</p>
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		<title>By: icelovinbrotha215</title>
		<link>http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/06/tackling-how-the-us-debt-debacle-might-affect-the-nhl/comment-page-1/#comment-14873</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[icelovinbrotha215]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Aug 2011 01:31:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=44786#comment-14873</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[All sports will suffer because they bank on us common folk to give them our disposable income. America will continue to recess (double-dippin&#039; now) and will have its inhabitants hold unto their monies. Experts say we will come out of this. Yet no visible sign is in sight. Hopefully leagues don&#039;t start contracting.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All sports will suffer because they bank on us common folk to give them our disposable income. America will continue to recess (double-dippin&#8217; now) and will have its inhabitants hold unto their monies. Experts say we will come out of this. Yet no visible sign is in sight. Hopefully leagues don&#8217;t start contracting.</p>
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		<title>By: nhlbruins90</title>
		<link>http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/06/tackling-how-the-us-debt-debacle-might-affect-the-nhl/comment-page-1/#comment-14869</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[nhlbruins90]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Aug 2011 00:58:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=44786#comment-14869</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s pretty simple really. The USA has debts it can&#039;t possibly pay off, and we keep borrowing more. It can only play out in a few ways. We can default, and simply not pay off our bonds. That won&#039;t happen. The USA always pays its debts. 

The other alternative is to crank up the printing press in the basement of the Treasury building. That&#039;s why you&#039;re paying more for everything at the supermarket and the gas pump, QE1 and QE2. Next up will be QE3 and on and on until the dollar is no better than green toilet paper. 

At that point, we&#039;ll pay off the hard working Chinese factory workers who invested their money in US bonds with worthless dollars. American bondholders will be screwed as well. It&#039;s default without having to actually say you&#039;ve defaulted on your debts. Shameful really.

The only question is how inflated the dollar becomes. Will it cost $1000 to buy a shopping cart full of groceries, or $10,000? Or am I being too optimistic. We&#039;re over 14 trillion in debt and climbing fast. There&#039;s no credible plan to change that. But like it or not, change is coming.  

Small market teams in the USA may become economically untenable. This is a boon for Canadian teams. I used to think NHL hockey returning to Quebec City was ridiculous. Now I think they may have their choice ... Phoenix, Florida, Columbus, take your pick. And the NHL will be grateful. Hamilton ... there may be hope for you yet.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s pretty simple really. The USA has debts it can&#8217;t possibly pay off, and we keep borrowing more. It can only play out in a few ways. We can default, and simply not pay off our bonds. That won&#8217;t happen. The USA always pays its debts. </p>
<p>The other alternative is to crank up the printing press in the basement of the Treasury building. That&#8217;s why you&#8217;re paying more for everything at the supermarket and the gas pump, QE1 and QE2. Next up will be QE3 and on and on until the dollar is no better than green toilet paper. </p>
<p>At that point, we&#8217;ll pay off the hard working Chinese factory workers who invested their money in US bonds with worthless dollars. American bondholders will be screwed as well. It&#8217;s default without having to actually say you&#8217;ve defaulted on your debts. Shameful really.</p>
<p>The only question is how inflated the dollar becomes. Will it cost $1000 to buy a shopping cart full of groceries, or $10,000? Or am I being too optimistic. We&#8217;re over 14 trillion in debt and climbing fast. There&#8217;s no credible plan to change that. But like it or not, change is coming.  </p>
<p>Small market teams in the USA may become economically untenable. This is a boon for Canadian teams. I used to think NHL hockey returning to Quebec City was ridiculous. Now I think they may have their choice &#8230; Phoenix, Florida, Columbus, take your pick. And the NHL will be grateful. Hamilton &#8230; there may be hope for you yet.</p>
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		<title>By: sknut</title>
		<link>http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/06/tackling-how-the-us-debt-debacle-might-affect-the-nhl/comment-page-1/#comment-14860</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[sknut]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Aug 2011 21:22:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=44786#comment-14860</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I wonder how it will effect Phoenix, I am sure the NHL isn&#039;t happy about still owning it and this might make it harder to find a buyer. Seems the Candian theory is a sound one and Phoenix is ripe for the taking.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder how it will effect Phoenix, I am sure the NHL isn&#8217;t happy about still owning it and this might make it harder to find a buyer. Seems the Candian theory is a sound one and Phoenix is ripe for the taking.</p>
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		<title>By: 1943mrmojorisin1971</title>
		<link>http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/06/tackling-how-the-us-debt-debacle-might-affect-the-nhl/comment-page-1/#comment-14859</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[1943mrmojorisin1971]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Aug 2011 20:46:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/?p=44786#comment-14859</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You don&#039;t have to worry about there being more Canadian teams. Gary Bettman will defend the struggling American teams until they&#039;re all losing billions of dollars, because as we&#039;ve seen losing hundreds of millions isn&#039;t enough to pull the plug on an American team]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You don&#8217;t have to worry about there being more Canadian teams. Gary Bettman will defend the struggling American teams until they&#8217;re all losing billions of dollars, because as we&#8217;ve seen losing hundreds of millions isn&#8217;t enough to pull the plug on an American team</p>
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